Windy Conditions

[Andy Collins]

I'm just guessing, but I would imagine there are more drone owners than there are pilots. That could be an interesting battle. Just sayin..

If there aren't more drone owners than pilots now there will be in the near future. The issue is with safety,,pilots are trained as required by the FAA, drone operators (for recreation) don't have to have any type of training at this time.

My concern is the consequences for breaking a rule and or causing a problem.

For a pilot, if they break a rule, the consequences can be harsh, a license that you spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to get, can be taken away, your insurance premiums on your plane (if you keep your license) can go through the roof,,pilots have a lot to lose if they break a FAA rule,,drone pilots don't have much at risk at this point.

If someone says something isn't safe, the FAA listens, especially if commercial pilots say it,,so we need to push hard internally for safety,,and the FAA thinks following the rules means you are being safe

 

[tvckz]

I have just came back from a windy desert location. It is stable in a mild wind but not in Toronto like wind (I think somebody visited that place and know what I am talking about). The rule is simple - if client pays well to buy another P3P tomorrow, I would probably risk in windy conditions. Otherwise, knowing that all that fat clients want more for less, I wait for a better day. (Not talking about weddings when you can not move the filming to the next day)

 

[Steve Moore]

When was the last time you saw a commercial plane below 2000 ft that wasnt landing or on fire? I get what you are saying, but you are using WAY too much imagination! A drone pilot targeted by the FAA will loose a LOT of money. No different that a radio guy pissing off the FCC. Attempting to raise a red flag by using commercial aviation is a bad attempt at sidetracking things. Drones MIGHT have a problem being at drone altitude and interacting with rotor-wing and private aircraft, unless they are flying in a now fly zone, which isnt what we are talking about. I totally get your concern, I have spent the last 15 years flying in Blackhawks at 200ft and below... And I've argued your side of the battle in conversions about what to do if you ARE in a real aircraft's airspace. Many of us that do fly at extended altitudes file flight plans. Report actions, and/or fly in places where there is little to no possibility of other birds in the air. Where I am.. my biggest concern is crop dusters. They don't file ANYTHING! Fast, erratic, unpredictable, and they don't look around a lot.

 

[Andy Collins]

What I don't understand if they let you file a flight plan, is that does nothing for someone flying VFR,,,

The one thing good about most crop dusters is when I see them its normally under 200',,,

 

[Steve Moore]

The problem is thats exactly where most drones are flying, and most rotor-wing. Those VFR flights are slow moving enough that there is no reason to think there would be an interaction with a drone. Experimental and small fixed wing are easy to spot from the ground, and from the drone for that matter. Flying that high and not paying attention, not doing the right thing... thats a whole different story. Flying at any altitude, any situation, is simply stupid and dangerous.

 

[SteveMann]

I'm in North Texas, with DFW being right between Dallas and Ft. Worth, the area requiring a transponder is big (figure 30 miles each direction from a point in the middle of the area.

Drones don't scare me, what scares me is people that don't know or care to follow FAA rules,,,,people brag about how high they took their drone.

I have heard people compare flying too high to driving too fast, ,,I think flying a drone over 400' is more comparable to driving drunk on a freeway,,your putting what you want to do ahead of the safety of others.

Your a pilot, you know the last thing you want to worry about is something flying around in airspace it shouldn't be,let the pilots unions start raising red flags about drones and the FAA will listen..

The number of drones is increasing very, very fast,,if the number of issues of drones being sited by pilots increases at the same rate, we will have a problem.

First, transponders are pretty useless below 1000 ft and not near an ATC radar facility. If the transponder doesn't "hear" the interrogation from the radar facility, it's just a ten pound dead weight. ADS-B is equally useless because it is designed to work above 1,000 ft AGL, and if your drone isn't in range of an ADS-B Ground Station, it's more dead weight. Yes, there is air-to-air ADS-B, but that equipment is not mandated (all aircraft that operate in airspace requiring Mode C transponders have to install ADS-B equipment by 2020). Only airlines and business jets are likely to have the air-to-air capable equipment be able to "hear" your ADS-B signal. Not the medivac helicopters and not the AG application aircraft.

400 ft is advisory only. There are no rules limiting how high you can fly your drone below 18,000 ft. MSL. There are TFR restrictions and rules about flying in class B and class C airspace, but the current state of the law is that you only have to notify the ATC facility of your flight within five miles of an airport. I am all for safety and common sense and following the rules, but I will push back when people make up imaginary rules then complain when we violate them. As I said, the FAA cannot initiate any rules regarding hobby flight until Congress tells them to. The FAA does have the authority to enforce 14 CFR 91.13 - "Careless or reckless operation". But it's up to the FAA to determine if a flight meets the threshold of careless and reckless. So far there has only been one drone operator prosecuted for violating 91.13, and that case was settled without admission of guilt.

Just saying you saw a drone is no more valid than saying you saw a UFO. The FAA released a spreadsheet with almost 200 drone sightings, but the fear-mongers referring to that document didn't read it. It's a list of sightings, not accidents, not near misses, just sightings. Many of them are un-verified, as one pilot reported "it could have been a balloon, maybe a drone". The FAA document includes a report that a neighbor was "flying 100 ft over my property". And the most ridiculous drone sighting was in a tree and the operator was in the tree trying to retrieve his drone. That's a threat, how??

I sometimes have to go to 500 ft or more to get a large property shot, but I don't think that a stealth aircraft is going to suddenly appear in the same airspace where I am flying. You can hear most helicopters from more than a mile away, and even the quietest General Aviation aircraft can be heard from a half-mile. If you are flying high and hear another aircraft, you come down below treetop height. Everyone is safe. Why does that terrify you?

 

[Steve Moore]

Absolutely @SteveMann. Thats kinda what I have been poking around in saying.

Soo...
What he said!

 

[Andy Collins]

The problem isn't with people that would drop down to tree top level and let an aircraft clear the area,,its the people that don't pay attention, don't know the rules and have no plans to follow them.

I guess one thing I don't understand is flying a phantom isn't what I consider 'thrill' flying,,i have a FPV racing drone for that,,and i rarely take it over 50 or 60',,,if someone wants a 'thrill' flight, take that for a spin..just going higher for no reason (and if your taking a picture and need 500' you have a good reason", isn't exactly fun,,it takes no skill except to push the 'up button',,,,

 

[Steve Moore]

My biggest beef is that everyone, even you Andy, started out lumping everyone that flies at some high altitude into one big pot. We are all unsafe and and no concern for the safety of others. Its also FAR to often stated that a Phantom is a toy. Some of us make pretty good money with out "toys"! Thats hardly fair, and I do frequently come to the defensive. My 1600 foot flight a few days ago actually wasn't high enough to get the pic of 80 acres that was requested. But that was the ceiling of ATTI mode. I personally didn't feel safe flying manual at that altitude, so I had to stitch 4 images together. Its absolutely true that some, if not many ado not fly responsibly! And those are the people that give this whole thing a bad name. For that matter, some people are getting the police called for flying in the street at home. We all have the opportunity to piss someone off. Likewise we all have the opportunity to really gain some strong supporters.

 

[ReefPilot]

If you are looking for strong supporters, then promote responsible flying! Being at 1600' is not responsible. It only leads to a bad name for responsible "drone" operators. I assume you fly in Kansas based on your Topeka location. There is a far greater amount of low-level flying in that part of the country than most people realize. Numerous military operations areas that start at the surface, not to mention being close to the "Air-Capital of the world". All the experimental and production certification flights for Cessna, Beechcraft, Bombardier / Learjet, etc. that take place. Some of those flights require low altitude operations. Also, I really don't think I would promote making money with your toy, unless you are one of the few who have obtained a COA from the FAA for what is considered commercial operations.

And contrary to what the other Steve said, the FAA would not think twice about issuing a fine if you do something unsafe or illegal in your drone (such as commercial operations at 1,600' without a COA). All these guys who have a little time in a Cessna and a rating or 2 should be aware you are actually putting your pilot's certificate on the line if you do anything stupid while flying your Phantom. Yes, they can initiate certificate action against your license. In fact, the FAA will actually enforce a tougher fine and penalty on you since you should know better. I wouldn't risk my ATP on it!

 

[Steve Moore]

Sorry to hurt your feelings, but its very obvious that you have no clue what my knowledge is of aviation, much less of aviation ANYWHERE I fly. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, but its value is fairly minimal.

 

[ReefPilot]

Sorry to hurt your feelings, but its very obvious that you have no clue what my knowledge is of aviation, much less of aviation ANYWHERE I fly. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, but its value is fairly minimal.

Then enlighten us please!

 

[Steve Moore]

My qualification and experience is non of your business. Nor is my political affiliation or shoe size. I have no responsibility to QUALIFY myself to you. Neither does anyone else here!

 

[westlightaerial]

I'm very surprised how well the P3P flys in high winds. It's not ideal but so far it's good. My gimbal issues a warning every once in a while when flying toward the wind but I guess that's expected. Image is pretty smooth. All this said, I don't want to make it a habit.

 

[rl2k05]

Cant we all just get along?

 

[cdronefly]

I'm very surprised how well the P3P flys in high winds. It's not ideal but so far it's good. My gimbal issues a warning every once in a while when flying toward the wind but I guess that's expected. Image is pretty smooth. All this said, I don't want to make it a habit.

My P3 actually blew away one day - my mistake was taking it a little too high in 20-25mpg breeze. Winds can differ greatly....I thought I had lost it, but RTH kicked in and it fought it's way back. Pilots should understand the weather like a sailor (or pilot). There is a big difference between winds at 10mph gusting to 15 and those at 20+ gusting to who-knows-what.
Also, flying in winds close to you or close to the ground is different than heading way up and away.

I did a little test in the front yard just as a demo of the gimbal/camera and the machine did well. Still, after that blow-away incident, you won't find me tempting fate.

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[Brad Vickery]

My 2 cents: 10 MPH is about my limit. Any higher and your looking at alot of stress. I have flown in heavy wind just to see how it acted. It did good and fought the wind but the stress is enormous as you go up in higher winds. Lots of people been talking about stress cracks lately.I was raised with full sized airplanes and wind is a very big factor to pilots I can't feel our little guys would be different.

 

[Brad Vickery]

Cant we all just get along?

I think we are getting along but some times useful information and this was very useful info just isn't put out like sugar. I am in hopes at least we are taken and being respectful and care about others feelings.So you point is also well; taken rl2k05.

 

[Steve Moore]

A Phantom doing its job and maintain its position in a 20 kt wind is absolutely no different that it flying at 20 kts in no wind. Gusts could be a bit more stressful. I would be almost anything that those with stress cracks are flying props that haven't been balanced! That tied with potential over tightening and poor screw pockets.. its simply going to happen.

 

[Vanjo Grale]

Seems this thread got hijacked.

I'm surprised that the hand catch isn't talked about in the official manual - I figured it out myself after watching my P2v+ tip itself over one too many times trying to land in 15+ knots. I'm pretty comfortable in up to 20 knots - video gets hard, but stills are fine. I never let it land on the ground anymore, even in no wind - hand catch is the most reliable way IMHO.