slow fall and crash

[MicahG]

Alright what the heck?
Looking at the boards I am seeing a couple other similar crashes.
I got a new vision+ today, owner of a v1 phantom so not new to DJI.

The quad was maybe 200ft, when I had made a pretty minor rotation.
It fairly slowly just started losing altitude, I moved the stick to the top position to make it climb but it made zero difference.
I watched it slowly fall onto a roof and crash, of course after it hit the roof it fell to the driveway and broke the gimbal and prop guard.

what gives DJI?
I had upgraded to firmware 3.04, battery was at about 60%, I still had video streaming in and was pretty close to the quad.
This really doesn't feel like my fault here.

 

[MikesTooLz]

You understand that this forum is not DJI, its just a bunch of fans/users right?

 

[Phantom_Menace66]

Alright what the heck?
Looking at the boards I am seeing a couple other similar crashes.
I got a new vision+ today, owner of a v1 phantom so not new to DJI.

The quad was maybe 200ft, when I had made a pretty minor rotation.
It fairly slowly just started losing altitude, I moved the stick to the top position to make it climb but it made zero difference.
I watched it slowly fall onto a roof and crash, of course after it hit the roof it fell to the driveway and broke the gimbal and prop guard.

what gives DJI?
I had upgraded to firmware 3.04, battery was at about 60%, I still had video streaming in and was pretty close to the quad.
This really doesn't feel like my fault here.
Can I send you my gimbal for a fix?

Oh dear... That's 3 new crashes I've read about today, 11 in one week including mine 4 days ago. This cannot be coincidence that these things continue to fall from the sky. This really is bad.
Good luck contacting DJI for any help, I wrote 8 emails and after 5 days got a 1 line reply: Hello sir, please check when open box. If faulty contact DJI customer support. That was it.... No acknowledgement of my crashed P2V+, no offer to repair/replace, investigate, nothing.
They're certainly not about to admit there could be a fault....

 

[phantomguy]

Often the crashes with coming down uncontrollably (even slowly) with a wobble with prop guards in place are attributed to vortex wash where the props cant get air under them to push up against. THis is why DJI (via firmware updates) have been slowing down max descent rate speeds. In these situations only thing you can do is use the right stick to try to move out of the prop wash.

 

[MicahG]

I'm so sad, it's so much more responsive without gimbal and propguards. Hadn't heard of vortex wash with guards before, won't be putting those back on.

 

[jalpert]

This. Having prop guards on can land you in VRS just by hovering.

Often the crashes with coming down uncontrollably (even slowly) with a wobble with prop guards in place are attributed to vortex wash where the props cant get air under them to push up against. THis is why DJI (via firmware updates) have been slowing down max descent rate speeds. In these situations only thing you can do is use the right stick to try to move out of the prop wash.

 

[MikesTooLz]

I'm so sad, it's so much more responsive without gimbal and propguards. Hadn't heard of vortex wash with guards before, won't be putting those back on.

The prop guards are not the cause of Vortex rings state. It is caused by the phantom descending to quickly. Thats why the newer firmware update has lowered the maximum decent rate, people are coming down to fast.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_ring_state

 

[denofr]

FWIW I had 2 incidents within 8 days of each other using blade guards, that was 3 weeks ago, took them off, none since. At the time I was making a pest of myself asking every new crashee if they had blade guards on; 100% of them said yes.

 

[MikesTooLz]

FWIW I had 2 incidents within 8 days of each other using blade guards, that was 3 weeks ago, took them off, none since. At the time I was making a pest of myself asking every new crashee if they had blade guards on; 100% of them said yes.

well, I'm just guessing, but people who buy prop guards have the mind set to fly the phantom close enough to objects that they will hit them. Its like you are planning on crashing or flying to close to things or in to confined of an area. If you think you are going to crash where you fly and need prop guards it should be a hint not to fly in that area.

 

[chriske]

FWIW I had 2 incidents within 8 days of each other using blade guards, that was 3 weeks ago, took them off, none since. At the time I was making a pest of myself asking every new crashee if they had blade guards on; 100% of them said yes.

well, I'm just guessing, but people who buy prop guards have the mind set to fly the phantom close enough to objects that they will hit them. Its like you are planning on crashing or flying to close to things or in to confined of an area. If you think you are going to crash where you fly and need prop guards it should be a hint not to fly in that area.

Yea i also dont get the prop gaurds. waste of money and weight xD, dont do stupid stuff with a 1300$ toy.

 

[jalpert]

Sorry, but you're wrong. I was with someone that ended up in VRS just by hovering. Hasn't happened since removing the prop guards.

FWIW I had 2 incidents within 8 days of each other using blade guards, that was 3 weeks ago, took them off, none since. At the time I was making a pest of myself asking every new crashee if they had blade guards on; 100% of them said yes.

well, I'm just guessing, but people who buy prop guards have the mind set to fly the phantom close enough to objects that they will hit them. Its like you are planning on crashing or flying to close to things or in to confined of an area. If you think you are going to crash where you fly and need prop guards it should be a hint not to fly in that area.

 

[BlackTracer]

This sounds very familiar to me. I had a similar experience on my third flight. Thankfully it didn't end in a crash. Craft was loaded with factory firmware as there were no updates at the time. That would be 3.0. I had switched to naza mode and recalibrated everything as this was not my first rodeo. I was flying about 150 ft up and 750 ft distance when I lose FPV. S1 and S2 both up. I had an eyeball on it as it was night. Craft begins an uncommanded descent. I don't panic as I give left stick up but no response. Craft is now just above the treeline LOS headed down. I quickly switch S1 to atti and it stops descending. Heart attack averted. I then go to S1 up and I can see her hovering again. I switch to HL and bring her home.
I then decide to revert to 1.08 cause at this point I don't trust the firmware. I also select RTH landing and then back to RTH go home and land. The way it acted was just land right now don't return to home first. Needless to say it has been working flawlessly for 15 or so flights on 1.08. Just wanted to share the similarities to what happened to you.

 

[MikesTooLz]

Sorry, but you're wrong. I was with someone that ended up in VRS just by hovering. Hasn't happened since removing the prop guards.

Was he flying in a wide open field at the time of his crash?

 

[MikesTooLz]

This sounds very familiar to me. I had a similar experience on my third flight. Thankfully it didn't end in a crash. Craft was loaded with factory firmware as there were no updates at the time. That would be 3.0. I had switched to naza mode and recalibrated everything as this was not my first rodeo. I was flying about 150 ft up and 750 ft distance when I lose FPV. S1 and S2 both up. I had an eyeball on it as it was night. Craft begins an uncommanded descent. I don't panic as I give left stick up but no response. Craft is now just above the treeline LOS headed down. I quickly switch S1 to atti and it stops descending. Heart attack averted. I then go to S1 up and I can see her hovering again. I switch to HL and bring her home.
I then decide to revert to 1.08 cause at this point I don't trust the firmware. I also select RTH landing and then back to RTH go home and land. The way it acted was just land right now don't return to home first. Needless to say it has been working flawlessly for 15 or so flights on 1.08. Just wanted to share the similarities to what happened to you.

You may think it was the 3.0 firmware and be scared of the 3.0 firmware, however I personally as more scared of what the phantom could do by me loading a firmware from a different model phantom that was made way before the Vision+ existed.

I don't get how people can get so upset and blame DJI for writing horrible software/firmware that doesn't work properly. Yet they can just turn around and expect a firmware from a different aircraft model to just work flawlessly on a new aircraft that has been changed and has some different hardware.

Luckily I have not seen a bunch of people reporting running downgraded firmware as a cause of a crash and hopefully it stays that way, but to me with a background in programming this just has bad idea written all over it.

 

[CarlJ]

This reminds me of the restaurants on Mars, great food, but no atmosphere! ::drum hit:: :lol:

But seriously, the troposphere is like an onion, it has many layers. There are wind eddies, down drafts, you name it because it's the MOST energetic section of the atmosphere. This is not to cast aspersions on the OP, I have no idea what caused his crash, and I hate to see any Phantom laying in pieces.

I did happen to read about a guy from Indiana who got his new Vision+, and on his first flight took the craft 800 feet in the air where he says he experienced a fly away. I live in Indiana and remember the day in question, and it wasn't a fly away...it got blown away. Only 25 mile an hour ground winds that day, but the winds aloft were hell.

 

[CarlJ]

Sorry, but you're wrong. I was with someone that ended up in VRS just by hovering. Hasn't happened since removing the prop guards.

The props cause VRS, the prop guards don't move...I'm just sayin.

I use the prop guards because I'm often flying around the pets or family, and it's just an extra layer of protection. If you're having a problem with VRS it's because you're too hot on the stick, which has been stated many times...because it's true.

 

[Birdman]

I've used prop guards on all flights without any problems whatever. I took them off this week because I'm feeling more confident now. I don't believe the prop guards are causing a problem. And they saved me from replacing propellers on a couple of not-too-pretty landings. I can believe the wind and down drafts do cause problems sometime.

 

[denofr]

Sorry, but you're wrong. I was with someone that ended up in VRS just by hovering. Hasn't happened since removing the prop guards.

The props cause VRS, the prop guards don't move...I'm just sayin.

I use the prop guards because I'm often flying around the pets or family, and it's just an extra layer of protection. If you're having a problem with VRS it's because you're too hot on the stick, which has been stated many times...because it's true.

No one is telling you not to use them and btw everything you say is true, the theory is that the blade guards are creating an unmovable cushion that is exacerbated by the extra weight. The blades just don't have the same bite they have without them.

 

[CarlJ]

No one is telling you not to use them and btw everything you say is true, the theory is that the blade guards are creating an unmovable cushion that is exacerbated by the extra weight. The blades just don't have the same bite they have without them.

I understand no one is against my use of the prop guards, and it could be true that they exacerbate VRS, but they are not the cause.

 

[BlackTracer]

This sounds very familiar to me. I had a similar experience on my third flight. Thankfully it didn't end in a crash. Craft was loaded with factory firmware as there were no updates at the time. That would be 3.0. I had switched to naza mode and recalibrated everything as this was not my first rodeo. I was flying about 150 ft up and 750 ft distance when I lose FPV. S1 and S2 both up. I had an eyeball on it as it was night. Craft begins an uncommanded descent. I don't panic as I give left stick up but no response. Craft is now just above the treeline LOS headed down. I quickly switch S1 to atti and it stops descending. Heart attack averted. I then go to S1 up and I can see her hovering again. I switch to HL and bring her home.
I then decide to revert to 1.08 cause at this point I don't trust the firmware. I also select RTH landing and then back to RTH go home and land. The way it acted was just land right now don't return to home first. Needless to say it has been working flawlessly for 15 or so flights on 1.08. Just wanted to share the similarities to what happened to you.

You may think it was the 3.0 firmware and be scared of the 3.0 firmware, however I personally as more scared of what the phantom could do by me loading a firmware from a different model phantom that was made way before the Vision+ existed.

I don't get how people can get so upset and blame DJI for writing horrible software/firmware that doesn't work properly. Yet they can just turn around and expect a firmware from a different aircraft model to just work flawlessly on a new aircraft that has been changed and has some different hardware.

Luckily I have not seen a bunch of people reporting running downgraded firmware as a cause of a crash and hopefully it stays that way, but to me with a background in programming this just has bad idea written all over it.

I originally had a P2V delivered March 13 with 1.08 from the factory. The flight control hardware is identical in the P2V + vs. a P2V. Correct me if I'm wrong. Really the only difference hardware-wise is the camera and the FPV guts. According to the release notes for 2.0 and 3.0+, nothing of interest to me over 1.08. It works great and seems very stable and predictable. At least with 1.08 there is no danger of losing GPS lock only to have it think it needs to go back to the cylinder on the other side of the world. 1.08 knows nothing else but to go into atti mode with GPS signal loss.

I get your concern. But being a software engineer as well, we know that fixing bugs and adding features can introduce other bugs. Especially when we are dealing with features that interact with the GPS position like the cylinder and airport restrictions.

Just my $0.02