Police vs law vs drones

[Providian623]

Be polite, and do not be argumentative. Explain your position and KNOW what you are talking about. However, always remember that if it comes down to it we LEOs always have the last four words of any argument, if we so desire. Those words being "You Are Under Arrest". Please try to not let an "argument" go that far. The paperwork is a pain and I am going to have to book your drone and remote into Property & Evidence" where it's going to stay for a minimum of 90 days, sometimes 180, before your get you day in court. If I am in a good mood, you just get a citation. If I am in a bad mood, you are going to have to post bond. It's all subjective. Most LEOs actually believe what they are telling you because that is what they have been told at various roll calls by a watch commander, etc. Your demeanor will, most often, dictate how you are treated. However, there are bullies with badges. If you run into one you can always later file a complaint with the departments Internal Affairs Bureau, or in the case of smaller communities, the Chief. Just remember, YOU WILL NOT win an argument in the street if you get boisterous, make threats, or start with the "you work for me I am a taxpayer BS & I'm calling my lawyer" because you'll be doing it from a holding cell. I know of what I write. I am a LEO Command Officer who owns two (2) drones for the wife's, & my, personal use. My field approach, if I am present during the handling of a citizen complaint, is a little different because I know the FAA rules. Cops in the hobby are not as rare as you think.

 

[lonjsnyder]

To get into a 'discussion' with a cop, its best to have all your ducks in a row. 1st have your registration number on your drone. 2nd, have a copy of the registration info printed out and in your wallet. 3rd if you have a 333/COA have that printed out and on you also. Now make sure if you are within 5 miles of an airport you contacted that airport and were not decided access to fly. So at this point you are on some pretty legal standing. So if a cop says you can't fly where you flying you can produce documentation that shows you have complied with all federal regulations, plus to the cop you actually might appear to be "professional". Some cities have local ordinances, some don't. Unless they have worked with the FAA to create 'no fly zones' over certain parks, or buildings, they really do not have the authority to stop you since its the FAA that regulates airspace. They do however have the right to stop your from taking off, flying from or landing on city property which would include streets, sidewalks, and parks. So on face value taking off from your friends house across the street from the park and flying over the park, would not be against the law. Besides being a Drone Pilot Instructor for a University. I am a 2X Emmy nominated film maker, living in Hollywood and working in the TV/Film Industry. Here is where the cop can stop you. Film Permits. You need a film permit to film practically everywhere in Hollywood. So unless you are flying a drone from your own apartment chances are you are in an area where you need a film permit and if you don't have one they can shut you down, fine you, or take you to jail.

Permit required for Motion Picture filming.

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[lonjsnyder]

So basically, I flew down to Hollywood, and wanted to fly my p3s, so I did. Not 2 minutes after takeoff I am approached by a police officer who tells me to land immediately and that "drones are only legal in certain parks in California." [edit: I was not in a park at the time, so what the officer meant was that drones are illegal everywhere except specific parks] I knew that was utter garbage, but not knowing the exact laws in California, I didn't argue and left. After I left I began looking into laws stating that you could only fly drones in parks and there were none. I asked another officer and he said crowds and air traffic may be an issue for flying, but I was far enough from both people and airports as far as the faa is concerned, so I flew anyways despite the idiot police officer telling me I couldn't fly, and no one
Cared, the only other person who talked to me was another phantom pilot, so basically: what Do you think of my situation and how do you handle uneducated law enforcement?

I believe this is what you're looking for:
Note it covers Los Angeles City (which includes Hollywood).
According to lifeguards, LA County & Orange County have their own restrictions regarding flying from their beaches (although its not well enforced as you'll see many beach videos on Youtube)

 

[lonjsnyder]

Can Drone Pilot's Arrest Lead to UAV Restrictions in Hollywood? - DRONELIFE


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[Delta357]

With 42 yrs of So CA LE exp, also a former private pilot, my advice is register your UAV, keep a copy of of the Fed Regs (they can be found on line, just 4 printed pages) with your pre-flight check list, and research the local UAV ordinances before takeoff. If you're approached, be humble and advise that you did your due dillagence and must have missed something and request the regulation the LE officer is referring to. It's going to be a learning experience for either you or the officer. If you've done your homework, and you're civil, it should end well in most cases.

 

[Helihover]

Be polite, and do not be argumentative. Explain your position and KNOW what you are talking about. However, always remember that if it comes down to it we LEOs always have the last four words of any argument, if we so desire. Those words being "You Are Under Arrest". Please try to not let an "argument" go that far. The paperwork is a pain and I am going to have to book your drone and remote into Property & Evidence" where it's going to stay for a minimum of 90 days, sometimes 180, before your get you day in court. If I am in a good mood, you just get a citation. If I am in a bad mood, you are going to have to post bond. It's all subjective. Most LEOs actually believe what they are telling you because that is what they have been told at various roll calls by a watch commander, etc. Your demeanor will, most often, dictate how you are treated. However, there are bullies with badges. If you run into one you can always later file a complaint with the departments Internal Affairs Bureau, or in the case of smaller communities, the Chief. Just remember, YOU WILL NOT win an argument in the street if you get boisterous, make threats, or start with the "you work for me I am a taxpayer BS & I'm calling my lawyer" because you'll be doing it from a holding cell. I know of what I write. I am a LEO Command Officer who owns two (2) drones for the wife's, & my, personal use. My field approach, if I am present during the handling of a citizen complaint, is a little different because I know the FAA rules. Cops in the hobby are not as rare as you think.

Typical Cop attitude right here! No wonder so many people just love cops, I mean listen to this...... There's way more here than just words, a cop wrote.

"If I feel like it". Huge problem right here as you don't have the right to feelings. You need to base your decisions from facts and laws, NOT what you feel like doing based on your mood! This insane. I have bad days, and man if I based decisions at work or even in my personal life during this time, don't think the outcome would be at its best.

Using "your under arrest" is simply just arrogant. Let's put a drone operator behind bars and take away his property (another control tactic) because you are having a bad day, or just because you don't like the guy? Sounds like a 2 year old mentally to me. Everyone argues, it's sometimes healthy.

Openly admitting profiling to top it off........... "Your demeanor will, most often, dictate how you are treated.". This is un just. You should treat the drunk homeless bum with the same respect as a man in a business suit. You have no idea what they are coming from or just did.

Sorry, but I had to say it. This country is full of fear and hate. Bought and payed for you, by the government, fueled by the media, and presented by the police! A lot of people are now afraid to fly these things now because of the news and local cops making threats like the one above. I feel your whole post was arrogant based, and in this day and age, NOBODY wants to hear how a cop made a decision based on his mood or better, based on his feelings toward an individual. Most cops story's around here are based from ignorance, but your view seems more based on arrogance, but I don't personally blame you. It's your training of controlling and intimidation combined with experience that has put you here.

 

[Meta4]

Typical Cop attitude right here! No wonder so many people just love cops, I mean listen to this...... There's way more here than just words, a cop wrote.

"If I feel like it". Huge problem right here as you don't have the right to feelings. You need to base your decisions from facts and laws, NOT what you feel like doing based on your mood! This insane. I have bad days, and man if I based decisions at work or even in my personal life during this time, don't think the outcome would be at its best.

Using "your under arrest" is simply just arrogant. Let's put a drone operator behind bars and take away his property (another control tactic) because you are having a bad day, or just because you don't like the guy? Sounds like a 2 year old mentally to me. Everyone argues, it's sometimes healthy.

Openly admitting profiling to top it off........... "Your demeanor will, most often, dictate how you are treated.". This is un just. You should treat the drunk homeless bum with the same respect as a man in a business suit. You have no idea what they are coming from or just did.

Sorry, but I had to say it. This country is full of fear and hate. Bought and payed for you, by the government, fueled by the media, and presented by the police! A lot of people are now afraid to fly these things now because of the news and local cops making threats like the one above. I feel your whole post was arrogant based, and in this day and age, NOBODY wants to hear how a cop made a decision based on his mood or better, based on his feelings toward an individual. Most cops story's around here are based from ignorance, but your view seems more based on arrogance, but I don't personally blame you. It's your training of controlling and intimidation combined with experience that has put you here.

Helihover ... on reading the post you are complaining about, it's clear that you haven't understood the post properly.
I'd suggest reading it again a little slower and you'll see that your criticism is unfounded.
Providian is offering good advice to everyone here and I can't see any trace of acting on mood or feelings, arrogance, admitting profiling.

ps .. demeanour doesn't mean a person's appearance.
It is how a person behaves. If you want to act argumentatively, expect to be treated differently from someone that is polite and complies with directions from a police officer.

 

[Helihover]

Helihover ... on reading the post you are complaining about, it's clear that you haven't understood the post properly.
I'd suggest reading it again a little slower and you'll see that your criticism is unfounded.
Providian is offering good advice to everyone here and I can't see any trace of acting on mood or feelings, arrogance, admitting profiling.

ps .. demeanour doesn't mean a person's appearance.
It is how a person behaves. If you want to act argumentatively, expect to be treated differently from someone that is polite and complies with directions from a police officer.

This officer flat out stated how his decision can be based on his mood.

A drunk bum will act a little different than a man in a suit.

Like I said, there's more here than just words that a cop wrote. Maybe I'm over analyzing and this isn't the thread. Sorry.

 

[Meta4]

This officer flat out stated how his decision can be based on his mood.
A drunk bum will act a little different than a man in a suit.
Like I said, there's more here than just words that a cop wrote. Maybe I'm over analyzing and this isn't the thread. Sorry.

No .. he didn't
Like I said ...
Read his post again ... read what he wrote ... not what you think he's saying or what you want to hear him saying.
He isn't saying what you think he is.
You have completely misunderstood his post (and mine) and your comments aren't at all appropriate.

 

[apprentice]

Hollywood is an area in California, and no, I wasn't in a park, I was down by Venice beach what the officer was saying was you couldn't fly anywhere except specified parks in California, while really it is the exact opposite, there are specific parks where you cannot fly

Well I was flying at the Venice beach. But what I did was.

I saw two policemen patrolling. There were lots of junkies in the area. I stopped these two guys and explained the situation. I said that I'm from Europe and that I would really like to make some videos for my friends in Europe to see how the Venice beach looks like. I said I won't do anything commercial. This is important. And I said it would take 15 minutes max and absolutely no more. Also. I mentioned I would only fly over the sea and in over the areas where no people were.

After that one policeman mentioned the airport nearby and I assured him I won't fly any higher than 30 feet. He said OK. He was a nice guy.

And yes. I really took care to keep my word and only flew for 15 minutes, under 30 feet and only over the sea and were no people were.

 

[jephoto]

Well I was flying at the Venice beach. But what I did was.

I saw two policemen patrolling. There were lots of junkies in the area. I stopped these two guys and explained the situation. I said that I'm from Europe and that I would really like to make some videos for my friends in Europe to see how the Venice beach looks like. I said I won't do anything commercial. This is important. And I said it would take 15 minutes max and absolutely no more. Also. I mentioned I would only fly over the sea and in over the areas where no people were.

After that one policeman mentioned the airport nearby and I assured him I won't fly any higher than 30 feet. He said OK. He was a nice guy.

And yes. I really took care to keep my word and only flew for 15 minutes, under 30 feet and only over the sea and were no people were.

That's the way to handle it. Well done.
Right or wrong, The REALITY is LE can ruin your whole day if YOU act like a jerk.

Be congenial, let them know you mean no harm and make them feel you are doing your best to comply with local concerns.
Dont add to their daily stress and usually you will benefit.


"Imagine Whirled Peas..."

2-P-3p's
6 batteries

 

[Monte55]

LE can make up anything they want. You have to prove otherwise so arguing with them will not help. If you go to court who do you think the judge will believe. Just about have to video everything these days. Also I would suggest not to let LE know that they are on video. They could take the camera or card and deny it. If you fought to get it back, you are going to jail for something.
Years ago I had a friend that was given a ticket while traveling on a divided highway. He told the cop he didn't do what the cop said he did. He argued the point. He still got the ticket. He went to court to fight it. They even had the nice board with little cars on it. The cop was there and was first to point out which vehicle did what. Turns out the cop was wrong and pointed out the wrong car. The judge dismissed the ticket but he still had to pay something. Court costs and the hassle of going to court. You can't win. Better have your proof.

 

[FlyingHigh]

My wording was poor but I was not in a park when I was flying, and was not flying commercially, and the locals fly from the same place regularly, but the officer was implying that anywhere that was not a park was illegal to fly at, which is not true

Hollywood is an area in California, and no, I wasn't in a park, I was down by Venice beach what the officer was saying was you couldn't fly anywhere except specified parks in California, while really it is the exact opposite, there are specific parks where you cannot fly

If you were at Venice beach then weren't you flying in class B airspace?

There is literally nowhere in the LA area that is not within 5 miles of an airport. And Venice beach is directly in the LAX and Santa Monica airspace. So I don't see how you could legally fly there.

 

[joet]

Well, in this case, the Trooper was indeed wrong. NYS Criminal Procedure Law requires reasonable suspicion that a person has, is in the process of, or was about to commit a felony or misdemeanor to be stopped in public and asked for a name, address, and a reasonable explanation of their conduct.

If it had been me, I would have simply asked:

Do you have reasonable suspicion that I have committed, was in the process of committing, or was about to commit a crime?

If YES: What section of the NYS Penal Law did I violate?
If NO: In that case, what other section of the NYS Criminal Procedure Law justifies your asking me for my identification?

Any LEO in New York State who didn't drop the matter at that juncture (realizing that there was no basis in law to ask for ID) probably needs remedial training on the standards required for stop and question, detaining, and arrest. Those are kinda important ones to know.

I have total respect for police officers that enforce AND OBEY the law. I have little for those who violate the law themselves or "make up the rules" as they go along.

In case you want to read for yourself: New York Criminal Procedure Law - CPL § 140.50 | FindLaw