Phantom 3 Flight Capability Quiz

[GadgetGuy]

You can not fly 200m below home point? I did not know that...

Me neither, until last night, when I read it here!

 

[TheRealNick]

Me neither, until last night, when I read it here!

Is it in the manual somewhere or confirmed by someone that tried it? That is a long way down...

 

[GadgetGuy]

Is it in the manual somewhere or confirmed by someone that tried it? That is a long way down...

Not if you are flying from a mountain peak or off a cliff to the valley below you for optimal LOS transmission in every direction. If you are on top of an 800 foot hill overlooking the ocean, you won't be able to fly lower than 150 above the water, which means no water level shots of piers or surfers.

 

[huntjock]

Please do. Surely, they are the best ones to answer this question.

I asked Litchi: "Can Litchi (either before or after updating the aircraft to 1.5) preplan and then fly a mission that takes it where it is beyond transmitter control (out of range horizontally, over the back side of a hill, or behind a large building), without triggering RTH? "

They responded: "I have not tested it since the new firmware but I have not heard of anyone complaining that DJI removed that feature, I doubt they would as this has always been a feature of their waypoint engine."

So, I think were' still good to fly waypoint missions BVR/BLOS - but only within the other limits that apply. I am still sketchy about some 500m max flight radius or max distance between waypoints limit, though.

 

[huntjock]

That's not going to happen. DJI writes the SDK used to communicate with their aircraft and makes it available to the developers. If DJI, in their infinite wisdom, decides to restrict the flight of the aircraft in any manner, they will certainly impose that limit in the SDK that the developer apps require to control the bird. They already have, with the last FW update. Litchi will now have to operate within the SDK limitations imposed by DJI, whatever they are now, or are changed to.

You are absolutely 100% correct! Again, my ineffective communication skills. Ugh!

What I was trying to say was that "If DJI were to do the right thing, they would not restrict us from flying any of the missions in the illustration. There are absolutely no safety issues whatsoever with any of them"

I really appreciate your comments all throughout the forum. You are spot on, sir.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I asked Litchi: "Can Litchi (either before or after updating the aircraft to 1.5) preplan and then fly a mission that takes it where it is beyond transmitter control (out of range horizontally, over the back side of a hill, or behind a large building), without triggering RTH? "

They responded: "I have not tested it since the new firmware but I have not heard of anyone complaining that DJI removed that feature, I doubt they would as this has always been a feature of their waypoint engine."

So, I think were' still good to fly waypoint missions BVR/BLOS - but only within the other limits that apply. I am still sketchy about some 500m max flight radius or max distance between waypoints limit, though.

That's not the resounding "yes" I was hoping for! I think he misunderstood the question, though. The answer simply restated that once a waypoint mission has been successfully programmed, you can autonomously fly it without any transmitter signal. No RTH will be triggered if you turn off the transmitter during the mission. However, that answer does not address any of our questions about limitations in programming a mission to fly in the first place. Can a Litchi waypoint exceed 500m radius from the launch point? We know no waypoint can descend below 200m or ascend above 500m from the launch point. Since DJI only implemented Waypoints on the P3 with this 500m radius limitation for each one, its doubtful Litchi can now circumvent it, but I'm hopeful. Same with the 1500m limitation on the total distance of any waypoint mission. Can Litchi still create a mission which exceeds 1500m total distance?

 

[ScatSpeak]

Q: Can Litchi (either before or after updating the aircraft to 1.5) preplan and then fly a mission that takes it where it is beyond transmitter control (out of range horizontally, over the back side of a hill, or behind a large building), without triggering RTH?

Yes, it can.... I've done it multiple times with various Litchi GS preplanned missions... the mission is downloaded to the Phantom and it will fly it even if RC connection is lost....

 

[ScatSpeak]

Can a Litchi waypoint exceed 500m radius from the launch point?

Yes again, I've flown many preplanned Litchi GS missions that had the furthest waypoint much further than 500m from the launch point... and altitude can be controlled at each defined waypoint too.... too allow for some ascending/descending over terrain considerations or obstacles...

 

[huntjock]

Yes, it can.... I've done it multiple times with various Litchi GS preplanned missions... the mission is downloaded to the Phantom and it will fly it even if RC connection is lost....

That is what I gathered from the Litchi response. Weather permitting, I will be attempting my first simple wp mission that flies BVR/BLOS tomorrow.

 

[ScatSpeak]

simple wp mission that flies BVR/BLOS tomorrow

You know, you can always artificially provoke this condition by turning off the RC while the Phantom is flying the mission... this helps you get comfortable with what will happen but while the AC is still within safe and nearby LOS... I've done that too as a test of "what will happen"....

However, even having done that, the first time my AC flew on a mission BLOS and also lost RC connection, I had to ignore the tightening of my gonads and suppress the panic and just let her fly...

All was well, she flew the mission as defined and landed safely at home...

 

[huntjock]

That's not the resounding "yes" I was hoping for! I think he misunderstood the question, though. The answer simply restated that once a waypoint mission has been successfully programmed, you can autonomously fly it without any transmitter signal. No RTH will be triggered if you turn off the transmitter during the mission. However, that answer does not address any of our questions about limitations in programming a mission to fly in the first place. Can a Litchi waypoint exceed 500m radius from the launch point? We know no waypoint can descend below 200m or ascend above 500m from the launch point. Since DJI only implemented Waypoints on the P3 with this 500m radius limitation for each one, its doubtful Litchi can now circumvent it, but I'm hopeful. Same with the 1500m limitation on the total distance of any waypoint mission. Can Litchi still create a mission which exceeds 1500m total distance?

I've asked Litchi for clarification on other limits, whether they are rumor or fact, trying to determine whether they are coded only in the GO app, or whether they are backed by the bird's firmware.

I asked them to confirm if this mission is still possible with all of the latest DJI and Litchi updates:

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That long distance waypoint mission, uploaded Oct 5th, was nearly 2.2km long and its radius (see waypoints #1 and #4) is just over 1km. It would not make any sense to me if DJI has further tightened down the screws. If they have, then that is pretty much a deal breaker for me. If they have not placed these limits on the P3, then I am going to request a feature to support different speeds between waypoints, which apparently was supported with the P2V+ platform.

I'll let you know when I have info - one way or the other.

 

[huntjock]

You know, you can always artificially provoke this condition by turning off the RC while the Phantom is flying the mission... this helps you get comfortable with what will happen but while the AC is still within safe and nearby LOS... I've done that too as a test of "what will happen"....

However, even having done that, the first time my AC flew on a mission BLOS and also lost RC connection, I had to ignore the tightening of my gonads and suppress the panic and just let her fly...

All was well, she flew the mission as defined and landed safely at home...

I like that approach. Simple wp mission completely in LOS, launch bird, shutdown RC. If the day ever comes when I can successfully fly the wp missions that I need, I will have already prepared myself for the inevitable - that the bird does not return. I hope to know the flight paths of the various missions well enough by then that I can hop on my horse and go right to it.

 

[huntjock]

That's not the resounding "yes" I was hoping for! I think he misunderstood the question, though. The answer simply restated that once a waypoint mission has been successfully programmed, you can autonomously fly it without any transmitter signal. No RTH will be triggered if you turn off the transmitter during the mission. However, that answer does not address any of our questions about limitations in programming a mission to fly in the first place. Can a Litchi waypoint exceed 500m radius from the launch point? We know no waypoint can descend below 200m or ascend above 500m from the launch point. Since DJI only implemented Waypoints on the P3 with this 500m radius limitation for each one, its doubtful Litchi can now circumvent it, but I'm hopeful. Same with the 1500m limitation on the total distance of any waypoint mission. Can Litchi still create a mission which exceeds 1500m total distance?

A little more info from Litchi...

"As far as I know, max flight distance is above 10km (15/20? DJI increased it a few months ago) and the max distance between 2 WP is 2000m. The mission linked should be achievable still (note how I say should, DJI can and sometimes does change things without saying a word unfortunately)."

The video link referenced is the same link included a couple of posts up from this one.

Side note: The professionalism and objectivity of the developer community that I have interacted with since buying my P3 in early Sept is quite enviable. I know they have a voice and audience with DJI, much more effectual than individual voices of end users. Supporting the developers with app purchases and beta testing will only help us to make improvements, even perhaps where issues border on the political. Support them and they will be our advocates for certain features, including reassessment of how certain things might be implemented which limit legitimate use. Win-win-win

 

[ScatSpeak]

The professionalism and objectivity of the developer community that I have interacted with since buying my P3 in early Sept is quite enviable. I know they have a voice and audience with DJI, much more effectual than individual voices of end users. Supporting the developers with app purchases and beta testing will only help us to make improvements, even perhaps where issues border on the political. Support them and they will be our advocates for certain features, including reassessment of how certain things might be implemented which limit legitimate use. Win-win-win

Absolutely agree!... this is another reason why I don't quibble with the Litchi price tag ($15) and available in-app purchase for the exceptional Focus mode ($4.99) like some others have been complaining about in this forum.... all in for $20 bucks and you have an excellent flight application that puts the DJI GO app to shame and direct connection to an advocate who has produced major value in a short time...

 

[n6vmo]

Load those missions into the DJi Simulator and fly them. The simulator should help determine if they are possible with Litchi. I will try this experiment later this evening. But, someone can beat me to it and report the results.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I like that approach. Simple wp mission completely in LOS, launch bird, shutdown RC. If the day ever comes when I can successfully fly the wp missions that I need, I will have already prepared myself for the inevitable - that the bird does not return. I hope to know the flight paths of the various missions well enough by then that I can hop on my horse and go right to it.

I guess I need a horse to hop on, just in case! "The latest in DJI drone retrieval accessories!" I busted out laughing at your remark, picturing drone retrieval with a horse!

 

[n6vmo]

Load those missions into the DJi Simulator and fly them. The simulator should help determine if they are possible with Litchi. I will try this experiment later this evening. But, someone can beat me to it and report the results.

Well, I just experimented and attempted to fly these missions with the DJi Simulator. Here are my findings:

1. Using Litchi V2.6.5 I was unable to program an autonomous flight with two way points farther than 5272' (1.6km) apart. So, flights "Figure 1" and "Figure 2" are impossible to program using just two way points. However, you can program several way points along the path to get you out to 4km.

2. I attempted to simulate a "Figure 3" flight, but the simulator stopped when the aircraft attempted to fly from "B" to "C" and dropped below the home point's altitude. Whether that is a feature/flaw of the simulator is unknown. So a live demo of a "Figure 3" flight will need to be attempted.

I also performed an initiated RTH and loss of RC during a way point and orbit missions. Here are my findings:

Way point mission
Initiated RTH-
1. Aircraft stopped mission and returned home.

Loss of RC- turned off the RC half way through a 5 way point mission.
1. The aircraft continued on the mission and returned home after reaching the last way point. I would assume that if the last way point's action was set to anything but 'None', the aircraft would perform the last action and then RTH.

Orbit mission
Loss of RC-
1. The aircraft continued on its orbit until the battery limits initiated an RTH.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Well, I just experimented and attempted to fly these missions with the DJi Simulator. Here are my findings:

1. Using Litchi V2.6.5 I was unable to program an autonomous flight with two way points farther than 5272' (1.6km) apart. So, flights "Figure 1" and "Figure 2" are impossible to program using just two way points. However, you can program several way points along the path to get you out to 4km.

2. I attempted to simulate a "Figure 3" flight, but the simulator stopped when the aircraft attempted to fly from "B" to "C" and dropped below the home point's altitude. Whether that is a feature/flaw of the simulator is unknown. So a live demo of a "Figure 3" flight will need to be attempted.

I also performed an initiated RTH and loss of RC during a way point and orbit missions. Here are my findings:

Way point mission
Initiated RTH-
1. Aircraft stopped mission and returned home.

Loss of RC- turned off the RC half way through a 5 way point mission.
1. The aircraft continued on the mission and returned home after reaching the last way point. I would assume that if the last way point's action was set to anything but 'None', the aircraft would perform the last action and then RTH.

Orbit mission
Loss of RC-
1. The aircraft continued on its orbit until the battery limits initiated an RTH.

Great information and encouraging! Is this before or after the 1.5 Firmware update that locks the Litchi parameters down to those in the DJI GO app? Is Litchi V2.6.5 the latest version of the Litchi Android app? I presume that the coming Litchi iOS version will be locked to the DJI GO limits from its release, with no option to use an earlier unrestricted version, even if the aircraft hasn't been updated to 1.5.

 

[n6vmo]

Great information and encouraging! Is this before or after the 1.5 Firmware update that locks the Litchi parameters down to those in the DJI GO app? Is Litchi V2.6.5 the latest version of the Litchi Android app? I presume that the coming Litchi iOS version will be locked to the DJI GO limits from its release, with no option to use an earlier unrestricted version, even if the aircraft hasn't been updated to 1.5.

I have not performed a firmware update to 1.5, nor will I. Not sure if Litchi 2.6.5 is the latest or not.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I have not performed a firmware update to 1.5, nor will I. Not sure if Litchi 2.6.5 is the latest or not.

Thanks for clarifying your simulation configuration. I thought the DJI Simulator was only on iOS, or is there now one on Android, too? Updating to 1.5 will severely impact the Litchi flyers, as Litchi has warned.