Kicked out of my favorite park

[dg8882]

Well I just had the unfortunate timing of taking off when the "park police" decided to roll by. I saw them park and walk towards me, already knowing something was up.
They weren't rude but said to me that I am not allowed to fly over the water. Now based on my knowledge, the park does not own the air above the park and can't tell me what to do in that airspace. I do know what they can regulate aircraft taking off and landing on their property but they directed me to an extremely small field covered by trees and told me to fly there so they must not regulate taking off and landing?
This is a state park, not a national and I have been over the park regulations and nowhere in there are drones or use of any aircraft addressed.
Can someone give some input here? Should I stay away from this park because they don't want me to fly over water (rather the beach or paths flooded with people?)


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[Rostato]

Just POLITELY ask them for documentation stating that drones are not allowed in the park.

If they don't have that info then ask them they're name and contact information for a person who can help you.



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[dg8882]

I wasn't in the mood to argue with them then so I just sent an email to the central office for state parks and asked them to point out for me where flying specifically over water is not allowed.
I am a bit excited to see their response since I know it does not exist and can not exist since that would mean they have control over federal airspace.


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[tcope]

You'd be correct. However, I suspect that they could as you at any time to leave the park for safety reasons. I would have certainly asked them why you could not fly over the water.

 

[dg8882]

You'd be correct. However, I suspect that they could as you at any time to leave the park for safety reasons. I would have certainly asked them why you could not fly over the water.

I also thought the same thing, maybe they see it as a safety concern. But them letting me operate in a small field with kids running around and not a couple hundred acre lake, I would like to know this park's definition of a safety concern.


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[GMack]

Which state park?

AFAIK, the Gov. of CA allows you to fly in the CA State Parks unless the local park warden their has other notions like wildlife, safety, or whatever else they come up with at their own discretion. I've seen some city ordinances banning them from their property, but over water sounds a bit strange. I know CA has some Coastal Commission if you want a legal permit over water or wet ocean sand (They take control once the sand becomes wet from whatever city/county controls the dry sand and their own permit process - so you might end up needing two permits. i.e. Ventura County.), but I haven't run into a coastal waters cop yet.

One cop at Vasquez Rocks Park, which is a northern LA County Park, often runs off people who he thinks looks too professional sans a permit. Welcome to CA!

 

[dg8882]

Ah sorry for not mentioning that before, I am flying at Lincoln woods state park in Rhode Island.


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[Mako79]

I wasn't in the mood to argue with them then so I just sent an email to the central office for state parks and asked them to point out for me where flying specifically over water is not allowed.
I am a bit excited to see their response since I know it does not exist and can not exist since that would mean they have control over federal airspace.


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Dear Dg8882

We prohibit the use of drones/UAV's in our park as it affects the sleeping patterns of the fish. We have 2 reports of fish that have recently drowned in their sleep.

Yours Sincerely,
Mr S. B. Squarepants

I recently got kicked out too at my testing park. The signage had a picture of a commercial airline plane with a strike though it. I said to the park ranger, 'I thought it meant there was no airports here'. =)

 

[dg8882]

We prohibit the use of drones/UAV's in our park as it affects the sleeping patterns of the fish. We have 2 reports of fish that have recently drowned in their sleep

You never know what they may respond to me with. Hopefully they get back to me tomorrow and I will let you all know what they said.

 

[htownphantom]

I dont think it's gonna matter what they say,you're in a state park and if they say you can't fly over the water then I cant see how you can fight it.They'll just kick you out of the park.Sure you can fly over it from another location but they obviously dont want you doing it inside the park.
I recently stayed at a state park in Livingston Tx and asked the park ranger if I could fly there,he said no because of the dam being nearby{about a mile away}and the airport{at least 50 miles away} both b.s. excuses but arguing with them is not going to get me anywhere.

 

[htownphantom]

Dear Dg8882

We prohibit the use of drones/UAV's in our park as it affects the sleeping patterns of the fish. We have 2 reports of fish that have recently drowned in their sleep.

Yours Sincerely,
Mr S. B. Squarepants

I recently got kicked out too at my testing park. The signage had a picture of a commercial airline plane with a strike though it. I said to the park ranger, 'I thought it meant there was no airports here'. =)

LMAO

 

[dg8882]

I dont think it's gonna matter what they say,you're in a state park and if they say you can't fly over the water then I cant see how you can fight it.They'll just kick you out of the park.Sure you can fly over it from another location but they obviously dont want you doing it inside the park.
I recently stayed at a state park in Livingston Tx and asked the park ranger if I could fly there,he said no because of the dam being nearby{about a mile away}and the airport{at least 50 miles away} both b.s. excuses but arguing with them is not going to get me anywhere.

True, if they ask me to leave, that's fine but I would like to see what the department says regarding drones. I have flown here many times, and many times in sight of the "park police" this is the first time they had a problem with it. Not flying over water is oddly specific so I would like to see some reasoning behind it or that rule just written down somewhere.
If they tell me to leave when I go back, fine, but I'm making sure it's not because they are trying to claim rights to federal airspace.


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[royster]

I fly in a huge, quad soccer field here owned by the Lions club of Canada
Asked politely not to fly when any teams are playing or practicing on the fields, but, if no teams are present I am allowed to fly within the boundaries of the park.
Funny thing, asked yesterday if I could film a club practice, focusing on players taking turns shooting on their goalie! I;ve told the club I don't have the necessary insurance to fly as they request. They are going so far as to check with their provider to see if they will cover "practice videos".

 

[dg8882]

Well I can only assume their offices have closed for the day and they haven't responded to me.
I hope they are not going to ignore me since I really doubt they are handling that much traffic on a daily basis that I could not be responded to.
They don't have office hours posted anywhere so maybe they will get back to me, or maybe they won't and i'll just keep flying and ask for documentation if they approach me again!

Another question, I know the park has the right to ask me to leave with or without reason, but are they actually required to show me documentation supporting their rules if i request it?

 

[dg8882]

They just got back to me, here is what they said: Rule 3.3 states "Operation of sirens or any noise audible to a person of reasonable sensitive hearing at a distance of 200 feet from its source and other noise making devices or broadcast loud or raucous sounds or noises by use of an electrical amplifying system or sound track, is prohibited except by official written permission. Engine powered model airplanes, model boats, rockets and model cars shall be operated only upon receipt of official written permission from individual Park Facility Manager."

So the first section is irrelevant since it is referring to noise from something with the intent to produce a loud noise.
I assume the person who replied to me was referring to the second half, regarding model plane use. That rule seems to apply to only aircraft with an engine, as in gas power.

What do you think? Does the phantom fall under that?


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[42FrankZ]

In my experience most people use engine and motor interchangeably. I think their wording means you need permission before flight, though one might argue airplane vs aircraft.

 

[dg8882]

In my experience most people use engine and motor interchangeably. I think their wording means you need permission before flight, though one might argue airplane vs aircraft.

I can see how they would argue that engine can also apply to electric motors but what I am being told by this park is completely contradictory. I have sent another email to clarify more if they believe I should have permission to fly.
In the park, they only had a problem with me over the water. They didn't tell me I needed any permission to fly, just I had to do it in another part of the park.
The email did say the only reason they didn't want it over water is they thought the field would be safer.

So the people in the park just didn't want me over water and sort of implied I was completely fine to fly but the person I am emailing is saying I might need permission and can't fly without it.
Hopefully they can clear it up.


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[N017RW]

Your not going to change their policy or position over the definition of Engine or Motor.
Rockets are mentioned in the same sentence and they use Motors according to Estes.

 

[dg8882]

Your not going to change their policy or position over the definition of Engine or Motor.
Rockets are mentioned in the same sentence and they use Motors according to Estes.

I know I can't, nor do I plan to.
But I am wondering if it even matters. The staff never said I had to get permission, they were completely fine with me flying. So if I don't need to get permission to fly, that rule is completely irrelevant.


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[N017RW]

Sounds like a bit of confirmation bias.

Rules aren't irrelevant due to communication issues.

We've heard dozens of stories where the Staff was not on the 'same page' as the Rules.

However if you have proof of permission to fly, i.e.:"...receipt of official written permission from individual Park Facility Manager.", than the rules are relevant and you are in compliance.