At the present time you don't need to do this for fun flights. This is only necessary if you plan to fly commercially.
This could change.
FAA registration for an N number
- Thread starter THG Aviation
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This could change.
According to the FAA, you do. However, the argument could be made that in many cases you don't. Take this with a grain of salt as I am not a lawyer, and this is in no way legal advice.
According to the FAA, "While Section 333 grants the Secretary of Transportation flexibility with regard to airworthiness certification requirements, it does not grant the Secretary any flexibility with regard to airman certification standards as outlined in Sections 44703 and 44711 of Title 49 of the United States Code (49 USC). An FAA airman certificate is required to operate an aircraft in the National Airspace System."
That last part is only kind of true. As we all know, modelers have been flying in the NAS for decades without airman certificates, and the FAA considers anything that flies outdoors as aircraft subject to FAA regulation. The airman certificate for commercial use is based on a very selective and somewhat devious interpretation of Section 44711 of Title 49 of the United States Code (49 USC) which states (emphasis added):
(a) PROHIBITIONS.—A person may not—
(1) operate a civil aircraft in air commerce without an airworthiness certificate in effect or in violation of a term of the certificate;
(2) serve in any capacity as an airman with respect to a civil aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance used, or intended for use, in air commerce—
(A) without an airman certificate authorizing the airman to serve in the capacity for which the certificate was issued; or
(B) in violation of a term of the certificate or a regulation prescribed or order issued under section 44701(a) or (b) or any of sections 44702–44716 of this title;
...
The bold section is what the FAA refers to, so whether you need an airman certificate really depends on the definition of air commerce as defined in the statute. That is defined in Title 49 Subtitle VII Part A Subpart i Section 40102 as:
(3) ‘‘air commerce’’ means foreign air commerce, interstate air commerce, the transportation of mail by aircraft, the operation of aircraft within the limits of a Federal airway, or the operation of aircraft that directly affects, or may endanger safety in, foreign or interstate air commerce.
Notice the lack of requirement for engaging in an activity in furtherance of a business or vocation... Unless you fly in and out of the United States, you do not engage in foreign air commerce. If you are strictly doing photography, you are not carrying mail and most likely not within the limits of a federal airway (they are above 400' AGL). You may, however, fall under engaging in interstate air commerce if you meet the following definition as set forth in Section 40102:
(24) ‘‘interstate air commerce’’ means the transportation of passengers or property by aircraft for compensation, the transportation of mail by aircraft, or the operation of aircraft in furthering a business or vocation—
(A) between a place in—
(B) when any part of the transportation or operation is by aircraft.
(i) a State, territory, or possession of the United States and a place in the District of Columbia or another State, territory, or possession of the United States;
(ii) a State and another place in the same State through the airspace over a place outside the State;
(iii) the District of Columbia and another place in the District of Columbia; or
(iv) a territory or possession of the United States and another place in the same territory or possession; and
(iii) the District of Columbia and another place in the District of Columbia; or
(iv) a territory or possession of the United States and another place in the same territory or possession; and
(B) when any part of the transportation or operation is by aircraft.
Odds are, unless you live near a state border or in a territory or in DC, none of these apply to you and you are not engaging in interstate air commerce. That leaves the last clause of the definition of air commerce, "the operation of aircraft that directly affects, or may endanger safety in, foreign or interstate air commerce." This is really what requires all private and commercial pilots to obtain an airman certificate because any manned flight in controlled airspace could easily be said to, "directly affect," or, "endanger the safety in, foreign or interstate air commerce."
Well, according to the FAA's own policies and interpretations, both past and current, flying an RC multirotor or fixed wing aircraft under AMA guidelines, below 400' in altitude and not within 5 miles of controlled airports, etc, does not require and never has required holding an airman certificate. If RC multirotor and fixed wing operation under AMA guidelines truly fell under the directly affecting or endangering clause of the definition of air commerce, they would have no choice but to require all RC operators to obtain an airman certificate. They have said it themselves; Their hands are tied and there is no room for discretion when it comes to holding an airman certificate because of Section 44711. Since they have never and do not currently require all RC operators flying under AMA guidelines to obtain an airman certificate, it is hard for them to make the argument that such operation somehow now falls under the endangering clause simply because it is in furtherance of a business interest. All that would be left is, "directly affect[ing]," interstate or foreign air commerce. That's where the snag is because you are engaging in a commercial activity. However, that is up for debate.
Does the cumulative affect of individuals doing local aerial photography have a direct affect on interstate air commerce? Well, maybe. Perhaps an economic one. Surely it would detract business from aerial photographers using helicopters and fixed wing planes who engage in air commerce, but we need a direct affect on interstate air commerce. Those pilots' activities may or may not fall under the definition of interstate air commerce (depends on where they fly). Whether or not you're economically directly affecting interstate air commerce really depends on what percentage of aerial photography is interstate in nature and what level of impact aerial photography has on other interstate air commerce. If 99% of aerial photographers stayed within the boundaries of the state they took off in during their flights, it's a little hard to say that there's a direct economic affect on international air commerce. There's always the argument that you're having an economic affect on aerial photographers who affect international air commerce when they fly, but that's beginning to stretch the direct affect.
Part of this would also involve what impact private aerial photography has on paid aerial photography, and thus interstate air commerce. If millions of people are taking aerial pictures of their houses or property using an sUAS, is that not affecting commercial aerial photography? They're now doing something on their own that they would have had to pay an aerial photographer for previously. You could argue that there is an economic opportunity cost there, and aerial photographers are adversely affected, which is a direct economic affect on interstate air commerce. The counterargument is that those people would never have engaged an aerial photographer anyway, but that goes both ways. Most people engaging an sUAS operator, like real estate agents, for aerial photography probably wouldn't have engaged an aerial photographer either. Are those people taking their own photos directly affecting interstate air commerce by affecting aerial photographers' businesses and does Section 44711 require them to obtain an airman certificate? Remember, the affect on commercial activity, not the engagement in commercial activity, is what would trigger the requirement of an airman certificate because the air commerce definition doesn't contain the "furthering a business or vocation," qualifier that the interstate air commerce clause does. Wickard v. Filburn could easily be used to support this notion. Surely the FAA wouldn't go that far...
At the end of the day, the FAA could easily decide that commercial sUAS use under AMA guidelines isn't directly affecting or endangering international air commerce and forego the requirement for an airman certificate for commercial operation under most circumstances, but they will choose not to. The requirement isn't about doing what the law requires, it's about the FAA's desire to bring as much activity as possible under their purview. It's simply the FAA's usual power trip. They are really just trying to have their cake and eat it too by avoiding the headaches and political backlash of regulating modelers and hobbyists, while also tightening their stranglehold on everyone else.
I did the same. Got it notarized, returned it and received my number a week later. This issue was/is that when you buy something on the internet, often the receipt does not include the name and physical address of the Manufacturer and/or Dealer. So you are "notarizing" that you in fact did purchase from whomever and you are the legal owner. That is my understanding of the issue. All the information requested above is available. Engine Power Output I listed as RMP/VOLT.
A Section 333 Exemption is not a license or a permit. The FAA doesn't even call a "pilot's license" a licence. They call it a certificate and it does not expire. The 333 is a request to be exempt from certain FAR's and you are granted a set of parameters that must be followed in order to set a standard of safety and coordination with UAS's being used regularly for business in the NAS. As far as the AMA R/C community as a whole, I think the FAA did not perceive them as much of a threat to the safety of the NAS because of their inherent limits. I think once the FAA discovered that UAS's are being marketed to the public that are capable of altitudes in excess of 4000 ft and at distances of 30,000 ft plus, that is a threat to safety and should be addressed. Imagine if the FAA did nothing. By next summer 1 million plus UAS's flying around, some doing crazy thing's, it's really just a matter of time before an incident occur's. Everyone will scream where was the FAA before this happened? Just my opinion.
Exactly the reason we are having to go through all this BS, because people treat these like toys and refuse to accept the fact they can cause serious injury or worse. if operated carelessly.
I like what you said and to add to this:
I find it absolutely hilarious how we want people to take us seriously as Drone Operators when it's convenient (for instance when showing off or demonstrating out abilities) but when it comes to regulations we want them to be treated as toys. You can't have both.
If it can fly more than a few hundred feet, can fly autonomously, and is self stabilizing then it should be treated as an aircraft and have to follow aircraft regulations. Just my 2 1/2 cents worth
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How did the back-and-forths get communicated to you? I sent my form in a month ago and other than seeing the check has been cashed, I've heard nothing.
Sagebrush
As I understand it - what you are doing above is required if you are using drone commercially - including the 333 Exemption stuff and the "N" number - if you are just flying as a hobby all you have to do is register, pay $5 and FAA issues at the completion of the registration process a registration #
It was all by regular mail. One thing that does (or at least back then it did) expididte things is if you use next day mail of some sort. They seemed to react very quickly to express mail as opposed to first class.
I just want to say thank you to everyone who has posted here. The information is amazing and very helpful. I am already 333 exempt and need an N number in order to apply for a COA to film a paid event that is within 5 miles of an airport. I emailed The FAA and requested the forms to be mailed to me so I can Begin the process. I fly A phantom 3 professional. If anyone wants to check out my company look at SBdronelife.com or @SBdronelife on Instagram.
-just one question ( I bought my phantom 3 pro off craigslist so I am worried that this will make things harder. Does anyone have any input on this?)
Thanks- Mark
-just one question ( I bought my phantom 3 pro off craigslist so I am worried that this will make things harder. Does anyone have any input on this?)
Thanks- Mark
I think you can provide a notarized affidavit in lieu of a receipt stating that it has not been registered outside the USA etc. If not you should be able to create a bill of sale for the thing. In my state actual real live airplanes that carry people don't have a title so transfer is just a bill of sale anyway.
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