Client says 'yes' but airspace controlled.[UK]

inkytog · Jan 19, 2017

So. I want to do something 'proper' with the p4p rather than test shots all the time so I've offered a client to have a test run. for free - to offer them some shots.

The client run a stadium in London. The maps I've looked at show pretty much everywhere to be 'controlled airspace' especially because it's close to Heathrow Airport.

Now what happens here? In terms of the law -I'm not getting remunerated for the aerial work so can I fly the p4p here or not?

The venue have given me permission to film from the pitch level inside the stadium...and I don't intend to go above 30m and the place will be empty of people.

What's people's thoughts? Essentialy I'd have permissions from the landowner. They would make sure the people who happen to be there know there is drone work Happening and I can restrict the height to just above the roof of the stadium.

daveisim · Jan 19, 2017

inkytog said:
I'm not getting remunerated for the aerial work so can I fly the p4p here or not?

While I'm not in the UK (although I have stayed at a few Holiday Inns there) and don't know your rules from squat, here in the USA it would still fall under commercial use vs hobby since it sounds like someone is gaining from it. Just saying. Cheers!

inkytog · Jan 19, 2017

daveisim said:
While I'm not in the UK (although I have stayed at a few Holiday Inns there) and don't know your rules from squat, here in the USA it would still fall under commercial use vs hobby since it sounds like someone is gaining from it. Just saying. Cheers!

Ok. So it's more a question of the airspace restriction.

They are not paying me. I won't benefit from the shots at all financially.

If they then use the shots on a website- and still no money has changed hands. Am I still not allowed?

Alternatively I can shoot for them. Put it up on my Instagram / YouTube and that's ok? But my Instagram is a business account so could that be gain?

Or I shoot now for practice and then let them use it once I have my commercial license

daveisim · Jan 19, 2017

inkytog said:
They are not paying me. I won't benefit from the shots at all financially.

As I mentioned, in the USA that wouldn't matter. It would be commercial for all you say except your personal YouTube that has no mention of business.

Just because cash money doesn't change hands isn't the definition of commercial business. Here in the USA,as a hobby, I could not shoot a real estate house video for a salesperson friend for free and give it to him as this would part of his business.

I'd like to be perfectly clear, I don't know your rules. Hopefully someone in the U.K. will chime in.

Take a look at this thread:
UK CAA advice for commercial use

Loz · Jan 19, 2017

I too not in UK, - might it not just be best to pick up the phone or email Heathrow Airport and or UK authorities and ask them, rather than (possibly) obtaining incorrect advice from a well meaning fellow pilot. Worst case you may have permission to do something illegal - client is not responsible to know law, pilot is. I offer theses comments entirely constructively.

Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots

inkytog · Jan 20, 2017

Loz said:
I too not in UK, - might it not just be best to pick up the phone or email Heathrow Airport and or UK authorities and ask them, rather than (possibly) obtaining incorrect advice from a well meaning fellow pilot. Worst case you may have permission to do something illegal - client is not responsible to know law, pilot is. I offer theses comments entirely constructively.

Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots

I will of course do this. I guess I was asking in relation to the apps and maps that we can download what the general rule is when the areas is shown as 'controlled airspace'. The actual CAA App says that flying should be done with caution. That implies flying can be done but I wanted to see what others thought.

spamnchips · Jan 20, 2017

I am in the U.K. and use the latest app from NATS developed by Altitude Angels (Drone Assist). This will show you controlled air space and more importantly any temporary restrictions that may have or will come into place nearby. The recommendation from my local airport is to call the Air Traffic Controller and discuss the mission and location. The concept of whether it can be considered as Commercial Work or not will have to be taken up with the CAA who have legal control of our airspace.

Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots

embayweather · Jan 21, 2017

I have tried contacting the CAA about a similar problem in that I was taking some images for a charity. I looked on their website for advice and it advised contacting them for more detailed help. I contacted them and they sent an email back saying to look at the website as they were too busy to offer specific advice. Can't you tell it's the UK?
You get the impression that as long as you fly safely they don't give a ****.

inkytog · Jan 21, 2017

embayweather said:
I have tried contacting the CAA about a similar problem in that I was taking some images for a charity. I looked on their website for advice and it advised contacting them for more detailed help. I contacted them and they sent an email back saying to look at the website as they were too busy to offer specific advice. Can't you tell it's the UK?
You get the impression that as long as you fly safely they don't give a ****.

I've been told this too. There's just not enough of them there to help or answer questions.

Martin_W · Jan 10, 2018

Don't forget insurance as well; I guess you're a BMFA member? They have insurance as part of membership but for recreational use only. It sounds like you're planning to operate in a demonstration sense, and standard BMFA insurance won't cover you. You will need to purchase DDD (Data, Development and Demonstration) insurance from BMFA, check their website for details.

sswingle · Jan 10, 2018

Is airspace inside a stadium actually controlled? I would consider that inside a structure.

AndrewCCM · Jan 10, 2018

sswingle said:
Is airspace inside a stadium actually controlled? I would consider that inside a structure.

Probably open air...Not covered.

theleadgeneratio · Jan 22, 2018

Hi All, basically if the images are being used by the client it is still classed as commercial use. So the answer is, yes it would be illegal if the venue used them but not if they are on your personal instagram account. With relation to the airspace it depends at what height the restriction begins. You can find out on Skydemon. Its likely to be from the surface upwards if your near airport. My advice would be dont do it! You are personaly liable for the flight and any damage you cause to people or property.

theleadgeneratio · Jan 22, 2018

AndrewCCM said:
Probably open air...Not covered.

Airspace can be controlled wheter inside or outside to answer your question

barefootbeachcombing · Jan 22, 2018

theleadgeneratio said:
Airspace can be controlled wheter inside or outside to answer your question

Actually no. At least not in the US.

If this were an enclosed structure (ie a building), the "airspace" inside it would not ever be "controlled airspace". With an open-air stadium, it would still be covered by whatever airspace might be at that location.

theleadgeneratio · Jan 23, 2018

barefootbeachcombing said:
Actually no. At least not in the US.

If this were an enclosed structure (ie a building), the "airspace" inside it would not ever be "controlled airspace". With an open-air stadium, it would still be covered by whatever airspace might be at that location.

Interesting it is covered in the uk which is where the OP is from i think