The link at the start does not know work?, I would love to post my opinion.
I bought one of the first
I bought one of the first
Campaign for the replacement of all P3A /Ps with old motors and shells
- Thread starter Mr.Spock
- Start date
right at the start, I would love to post my opinion !!
I agree that they should recall ALL pre-September P3's, it not fair that I could have waited 6 months and got new motors,etc !!
I agree that they should recall ALL pre-September P3's, it not fair that I could have waited 6 months and got new motors,etc !!
Don't get me wrong!, I have no issues with cracking and I fly it as if its a box of eggs with props!, just my opinion on the initial post !
The cracked shells are a warranty issue for those who get them. At some point, there might be a tipping point where a recall might be in order, or there might not.
As for the motors, when we buy something, we buy what is on the shelf the day the item ships. The motors in your Phantom are the ones that were on the shelf when you put your money down. Unfortunately, that is all you have a right to ask for, unless you can find a fundamental flaw in the present motors.
A bit harsh for a moderator don't you think?
If people weren't telling those with concerns that this is all imaginary when a significant amount of anecdotal and real world evidence proves otherwise, the thread may not have gone on for 5 pages.
Spock is like me, the more you tell me that I am wrong or imagining things, the more I will dig in and produce evidence that I am correct or at least not imagining what I'm posting about.
The poll I saw the other day was not the one from the DJI forum - there were more responses to click on such as; "Have cracks and have crashed as a result" and "Have visible cracks but continue to fly without problems," "Have cracks and have repaired them myself," etc.
Again, there is a problem, only a small percentage have experienced it, but nonetheless it is a real problem.
Open it and fly it. The odds are that you will not have any issues. If you do, DJI will replace it.
What do you suggest DJI does for those who purchased the product before mid production improvements? For those with the issues, this isn't stupid.
I think my wife and daughter should be entitled to new iPhone 6S, provided at no cost from Apple, since we bought the iPhone 6 . . . NOT.
I bought my P3P because it was available, I liked the features and I believed the cash i had was worth the investment at the time. PERIOD.
I bought the Galaxy Note3 when it came out because I liked the features. When Note4 came out, i did not feel it was worth my cash to get rid of my old one (that served my purpose). When Note5 came out, I was ready to spend more cash to get upgraded features.
I spend my cash to get what I want, based on what is available at the time. If I wanted to wait for something better to be available, that is my choice - the same choice we all have. If I want it "now", then I choose to accept what is available "now". That is why we often refer to these major purchases as "pulling the trigger", because once you do, you have committed.
I love my P3P and have no issues to speak of. I would love to have newer and better. Someday I will, when I decide to PAY to upgrade (or somehow this one ends up on the bottom of a lake or lost in the woods and I PAY to buy a newer replacement).
Ok, there are 20 different types of bias. I'll list the ones that a poll and a handful of threads being used as a good sample are subject to.
1 anchor bias
An over reliance on the first piece on info you hear
The poll is subject to that as the first line in most of the polls is "there is a cracking issue". Very few start "there is no issue"
2 availability bias
Overestimating the info available to you.
So a few hundred maybe people write about a cracking issue so most of the available data says that. But that's because you don't have data from the 100'000s of people who don't have any problems.
3 bandwagon effect
When one person is vocal about a view in a convincing way he creates followers, who are also vocal. This is how extremists, suicide pacts etc happen.
So everyone with a crack is understandable annoyed. Then someone shouts "hey if we get a petition you'll all get new P3's with more efficient motors and new shells" great! Of course poeople pile in! I'd love one to (I also have the first gen shell and old motors) do I think I have a right to one based in the fact I have no problems and it performs as advertised and to the specs listed? Of course not!
4 confirmation bias
Giving more weight to the results that confirm what you want to believe and ignoring those which discredit it.
Eg calling anyone who states they don't have problems a DJI fan rather than giving their result equal importance to those that don't.
5 selective perception
Allowing our expectations to perceive how we view the world.
Let's be honest everyone starting one of these polls expected it to prove there was a problem. I doubt any of them set it up because they genuinely weren't sure and wanted to find out.
Then there's the sample (people that took part) these should be picked as randomly as possible. The problems with this were:
1 they weren't picked! They selected to take part. Someone with cracks WILL take the trouble to "vote" as they want to moan, air there annoyance and hopefully get something out of it! People without crack won't, as they wont get anything out of it so they won't give a toss.
2 this hope that all pre a certain date models will be replaced would mean even people without cracks may say they do have cracks as they may get a new P3 with more efficient motors out of it.
3 How many people with a crack do you think found the poll googling searching "P3 crack"? Now how many people without a crack do you think googled "P3 crack"
4 how many forum users with a crack do you think opened a thread called "P3 crack"? How many users without a crack do you think opened the same thread?
Finally your sample size is way too small to be statistically valid. I don't know how many P3's have been sold or how many people answered the poll, if you do plug it in here.
Sample Size Calculator - Confidence Level, Confidence Interval, Sample Size, Population Size, Relevant Population - Creative Research Systems
I use 95% for most of my projects. Now let's assume just 10'000 P3's have been sold. To be 95% certain (+ or - 2%) your getting a true representation from your sample you'd need to get answers from close to 2'000 people. That's assuming of course you correct all the above biases and sample selection problems.
So Ayrtonginster, that's why I think the poll is absolute rubbish and can go in the bin.i hope this explains it.
To your other points the P3 is the only DJI product I have ever purchased so I wouldn't say I'm blinded by loyalty.
You state 1 in 3 P3's have cracks, I'd love to see you post where you got that data from!
IT'S A TOY REMOTE CONTROL. Anybody with any experience in R/C know that they are something you have fun with and throw money at. DJI has done a remarkable job at creating aN entry level hobby toy built especially for people who have no flying experience. You have to keep in mind that this current leap in technology is going to keep improving and sometimes at a very rapid pace. Today's gadgets are outdated tomorrow (or in this case when you bought it)
Do like the people who have been flying remote controls for years.... Fly it and enjoy it. If it brakes, then fix it, buy another or better yet, build your own. That's what people have done for decades.
Remember when flat screen televisions came out and people were paying $10k for the early ones. And they had problem after problem. When companies like Samsung or Panasonic improved their panels they didn't automatically recall all their previous ones. They did help out customers who had legitimate claims (not that there still weren't disgruntled owners out there)
Do like the people who have been flying remote controls for years.... Fly it and enjoy it. If it brakes, then fix it, buy another or better yet, build your own. That's what people have done for decades.
Remember when flat screen televisions came out and people were paying $10k for the early ones. And they had problem after problem. When companies like Samsung or Panasonic improved their panels they didn't automatically recall all their previous ones. They did help out customers who had legitimate claims (not that there still weren't disgruntled owners out there)
I returned my P3P to Best Buy, this was the one with video range problems. The only Phantoms Best Buy carries in this area of the country are the old ones (Model W323). I went ahead and replaced it with another "old" model. Having flown RC models for a very long time, I know a fair amount about brushless motors, outrunner and inrunner. I must have a dozen of them lying around in my shop in-between models at the moment. Some are over 10 years old, and I would not hesitate for a second to put it on a model airplane I spent $500 and weeks building. These motors are remarkably simple machines, it's the ESC's that are the technological brains behind the technology. Just because the 2312 became the 2312A means little, it appears to have a modestly different KV and casing design. Losing the standoffs on the bottom might mean worse airflow underneath the motor, and could well be a cheaper design. If the old motor was the 2312A and the new one was the 2312, everyone would be saying how cool the new motor looks, with the beveled design and standoffs for mounting.
I do care about the plastic shell, and apparently the one I purchased has the new shell, it's tough to see through and has the radial "spokes" around the motor area.
Regardless, I've got model W323 and I'm gonna fly the heck out of it.
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I do care about the plastic shell, and apparently the one I purchased has the new shell, it's tough to see through and has the radial "spokes" around the motor area.
Regardless, I've got model W323 and I'm gonna fly the heck out of it.
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LOL, ANY and ALL public opinion polls are loaded with bias. That doesn't mean they are tossed out. But you forgot to list "response bias" and non response bias" which are pretty important to informal polls too.
Fact: P1, P2 (in all its variations) have never reported cracks developing in their frames.
Fact: P3 owners are experiencing cracks in significant enough numbers for it to be discussed on virtually every DJI forum (unless it is censored as the FB group does).
Fact: When people who have experienced cracks try to address the issue in forums, they are viewed as troublemakers, whiners, or told they have imagined their issue by many of the members who have had no issues.
Fact: Although DJI hasn't addressed the issue, but will replace shells under their warranty. With a turnaround time of several weeks.
This is absolutely ridiculous. To think someone deserves a replacement because they made changes to their product 6 months later. I bet this same person thinks a someone should get a trophy just for participating lol what a freaking job. I love my p3 pro I bought in July. Not a single issue and I have over 1.8 million feet logged. The older motors are more powerful and responsive . I'd rather have 30 seconds of less flight time and have better motors any day .
My P3A was purchased in August of this year and it has the old motors and shell! I have now flown 51 flight, 149,314 metres and a total of 8hrs and 30 mins! I have flown in strong winds, thick fog and rain and temps as low as -5 celcius! I have no cracks and have had no issues to date. Am I full of lucky charms or is this not the norm??
You bought a 2014 BMW and now you want to have it replaced by a 2015 BMW because it has improvements over the one you own. Light up another one son!
Where is that plastics engineer that worked for Mattel most of his career? I don't remember if he was on this forum or another one, but he had a plausible theory regarding the cracks;
If DJI is using recycled plastics in their production (which he says most companies are doing), they could have had either a batch of bad recycled plastic that was too brittle, or they could have inadvertently mixed in too much recycled plastic in a single production run. Recycled plastic is quite brittle, according to this guy, and too much could cause the cracking. This makes the most sense to me, but I know nothing about plastics.
If DJI is using recycled plastics in their production (which he says most companies are doing), they could have had either a batch of bad recycled plastic that was too brittle, or they could have inadvertently mixed in too much recycled plastic in a single production run. Recycled plastic is quite brittle, according to this guy, and too much could cause the cracking. This makes the most sense to me, but I know nothing about plastics.
If the 2014 BMW had a known faulty engine and BMW updated it with a new engine that wasn't faulty would you still not want the updated engine? I have to agree with Spock here. If it's a faulty batch they should be replaced.
