Breaking rules to fly above Fog?

[techmyjustin]

Hi everybody, this is a topic I've had some difficulty getting a straight answer, hopefully you can help.

We've had some thick ground level Fog where I live and I flew up above it for some great shots. But, what's the rule on Fog? Is it the same as clouds? Because the rule for clouds is "500 feet below, 2000 ft horizontally from clouds", and as we know it's not possible to fly 500 feet below Fog.

400' ceiling and Visual line of sight aside (because I already understand these rules), is Fog treated the same as clouds, thousands of feet up?

And if it is, this would break FAA Regulations, but what does that mean? What exactly are the penalties for breaking such a regulation, as I assume it's not the same as Law. This is for the United States, by the way.

Thanks

 

[BigAl07]

Fog = Low Flying Cloud
or from another source:
Nov 15, 2017 - Fog is essentially a cloud at ground level

If you're flying under Part 107 or a Public COA and you're busting the FAA regs you can get fined and lose all flying privileges for you and your department.

If you're a hobbyist in the USA and flying "Above the fog" you're also breaking CBO guidelines. Odds of any type of "Disciplinary" action being taken are slim to none unless you have an incident and if that happens you are fully at fault for not flying LOS. It's a very unsafe and reckless maneuver but it happens often.

If you can't see your aircraft you can not fulfill See & Avoid which is paramount for NAS safety.

 

[Primpwatcher]

I just read over one of the PDF files on weather from the FAA, the one I used to study. I did not read anything about flying in fog. It only described fog and how it forms. It did say that fog is basically "clouds at ground level". Not much to go on. You might have to call ATC at a local airport and ask them.

 

[BigAl07]

We've had some thick ground level Fog where I live and I flew up above it for some great shots. But, what's the rule on Fog? Is it the same as clouds? Because the rule for clouds is "500 feet below, 2000 ft horizontally from clouds", and as we know it's not possible to fly 500 feet below Fog.

UAS find it difficult to maintain this but it's part of flying. If you can't meet the meteorological requirements you don't fly. When a manned aircraft can't maintain these requirements to stay required distance out of fog we then have to be able to fly in IFR conditions. Not possible with our hobby grade UAS.

 

[BigAl07]

I did not read anything about flying in fog.

There's a very good reason why it didn't mention "flying in fog".....

 

[Primpwatcher]

There's a very good reason why it didn't mention "flying in fog".....

It's not a good idea? LOL

 

[techmyjustin]

OK so for example, here's a video I shot a year ago. I'm up on the mountain, flying OVER the fog, and I can see the drone VLOS because I'm not under the fog.

But I've heard the argument about staying BELOW the clouds, even though they are below me! But I can't seem to find a solid ruling on this, since the 400' and VLOS aspect do not apply here.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Primpwatcher]

OK so for example, here's a video I shot a year ago. I'm up on the mountain, flying OVER the fog, and I can see the drone VLOS because I'm not under the fog.

But I've heard the argument about staying BELOW the clouds, even though they are below me! But I can't seem to find a solid ruling on this, since the 400' and VLOS aspect do not apply here.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Nice video by the way. I'd contact the FAA directly and get it from the horses mouth.

 

[techmyjustin]

Thanks, I'm just assuming the standard reply will be "NO" before reading the specifics.

 

[Steven Graham]

It would be very helpful when people ask questions if they clarify whether they are operating under part 101 or part 107. Most of the details have been discussed here save the following. Part 107 operations require there to be 3 miles of visibility at the control station so this also would preclude legally launching through a fog bank. Operating above a solid fog bank precludes you from knowing whether or not you are over people or in the case of a hill side whether you are indeed remaining below 400 feet AGL.

 

[Mark The Droner]

It would be very helpful when people ask questions if they clarify whether they are operating under part 101 or part 107.

Quoted for emphasis

 

[tcope]

But, what's the rule on Fog? Is it the same as clouds? Because the rule for clouds is "500 feet below, 2000 ft horizontally from clouds", and as we know it's not possible to fly 500 feet below Fog.

Care to post these "rules" about clouds and UAVs?

 

[techmyjustin]

It would be very helpful when people ask questions if they clarify whether they are operating under part 101 or part 107. Most of the details have been discussed here save the following. Part 107 operations require there to be 3 miles of visibility at the control station so this also would preclude legally launching through a fog bank. Operating above a solid fog bank precludes you from knowing whether or not you are over people or in the case of a hill side whether you are indeed remaining below 400 feet AGL.

Thanks, this would be a 101 flight, just for the enjoyment of flying and photos.

This brings another question, say I get 107 certified, does that mean EVERY hobby flight I take is then will be a 107 flight, and not just the occasional 101 hobby flight? If so, that's a straight up discouragement to get 107 qualified, yes?

 

[N017RW]

Thanks, this would be a 101 flight, just for the enjoyment of flying and photos.

This brings another question, say I get 107 certified, does that mean EVERY hobby flight I take is then will be a 107 flight, and not just the occasional 101 hobby flight? If so, that's a straight up discouragement to get 107 qualified, yes?

No. The fight’s intent defines the operations not the operator’s endorsements.
However any operation outside of Part101 immediately shifts you to 107 operational restrictions. Every flight has to be one or the other.

 

[techmyjustin]

No. The fight’s intent defines the operations not the operator’s endorsements.
However any operation outside of Part101 immediately shifts you to 107 operational restrictions. Every flight has to be one or the other.

I see, thanks for that explanation!

 

[OOO]

The drone was always in VLOS.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[borschelrh]

I do it fairly often for dawn photos but I generally start from a point above the fog. I also use the very high intensity Strobon strobes which has helped me immeasurably to keep the Phantom in sight even up to 3 miles away. In thin wispy fog you can still see the strobes without problem. So VLOS is not an issue if you can see the strobes. It is much the same as shooting a landing approach to an airport under IFR. Once you see the runways REILS or HIRL lights (strobes) you are cleared to land. Seeing lights is the same thing as seeing the drone using FAA logic.

 

[blackcrusader]

I'm sure I could see my drone all the way up to 1200 feet to clear these clouds at over 10,000 feet altitude. No clouds or mountains were harmed during the filming of this video.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[richard Max]

OK so for example, here's a video I shot a year ago. I'm up on the mountain, flying OVER the fog, and I can see the drone VLOS because I'm not under the fog.

But I've heard the argument about staying BELOW the clouds, even though they are below me! But I can't seem to find a solid ruling on this, since the 400' and VLOS aspect do not apply here.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Great Video

 

[K Henry]

OK so for example, here's a video I shot a year ago. I'm up on the mountain, flying OVER the fog, and I can see the drone VLOS because I'm not under the fog.

But I've heard the argument about staying BELOW the clouds, even though they are below me! But I can't seem to find a solid ruling on this, since the 400' and VLOS aspect do not apply here.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Sweet!