2.7k or 4k? Need answer fast!

Darwish · Jun 24, 2017

Hi, im going on vacation to Bulgaria tomorrow. And im of course bringing my P4P along. But, my computer isnt powerful enough to edit 4k. But it will edit 2.7k fine. My question is, is it worth filming in 4K? Or should i just go for 2.7k? If i filmed in 4k, i probably could find a way to edit it on a pc which actually is powerful enough.
I maybe thought i should film in 2.7k, and then upscale it to 4k when im exporting it. Will it be a difference? What would you do?
And in 2.7k, isnt it that it gets cropped or something? Like does it fill the entire screen like 4K?

Aotearoa Kiwi · Jun 24, 2017

Probably a bit short notice to learn something like Premier Pro, it comes as 30-day trial, then monthly fee.
The trick is to transcode to a non-compressed format so your travel computer can handle it.
Adobe Premier Pro, transcode the original 4K to cinepro and then it is way fast even on my 5yo Vaio laptop I use for travelling - here is a guide, a bit slow at first but gives all you need to know. Premier has a high learning curve but the basics are quick to pick up.
For my laptop, it lacks the GPU accelleration to do the transcode, but you go make a cuppa and come back then you can edit your' 4K quite snappy, then leave it to transcode back to whatever format you want to publish.

Another advantage is it is easy to add and sync the audio off the phone-preview video onto the full video.

PS Premier also can use proxy editing but for some reason my laptop seems to take a lot longer with proxy - strange?

hedonist222 · Jun 25, 2017

What's the difference between proxy editing & transcode to a non-compressed format ?

Aotearoa Kiwi · Jun 25, 2017

hedonist222 said:
What's the difference between proxy editing & transcode to a non-compressed format ?

Proxy makes a low resolution copy of your video and uses that while editing, then when you are done editing, the changes are applied to the full resolution original. Using a non-compressed format, you are still editing the full resolution video but as it is not compressed, the processor or gpu doesnt need to spend time decompressing while editing.

GadgetGuy · Jun 26, 2017

hedonist222 said:
What's the difference between proxy editing & transcode to a non-compressed format ?

Proxies are much smaller files than the originals (roughly 10%), while uncompressed transcoded files are significantly larger (roughly 10x) than the originals. Proxies lack the detail of the original files, but save tons of space that transcoding would create, to achieve the same result: faster editing of 4K files before rendering, which still uses the original files, despite using the smaller proxies during the editing process.

Darwish · Jun 26, 2017

Aotearoa Kiwi said:
Probably a bit short notice to learn something like Premier Pro, it comes as 30-day trial, then monthly fee.
The trick is to transcode to a non-compressed format so your travel computer can handle it.
Adobe Premier Pro, transcode the original 4K to cinepro and then it is way fast even on my 5yo Vaio laptop I use for travelling - here is a guide, a bit slow at first but gives all you need to know.

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Premier has a high learning curve but the basics are quick to pick up.
For my laptop, it lacks the GPU accelleration to do the transcode, but you go make a cuppa and come back then you can edit your' 4K quite snappy, then leave it to transcode back to whatever format you want to publish.

Another advantage is it is easy to add and sync the audio off the phone-preview video onto the full video.

PS Premier also can use proxy editing but for some reason my laptop seems to take a lot longer with proxy - strange?

I'm not really wanting to use any other editing program than Wondershare Filmora. I don't think this has the transcoding and proxy stuff. Thats why I ask if it will be about the same quality with 2.7k? Will it be easy to notice? And would the 2.7k image be in a different screen ratio? Like will it fill up the whole screen like 4K? I mistook my traveling date, I'm leaving for Bulgaria tomorrow.

KevMo Photog · Jun 26, 2017

Darwish said:
I'm not really wanting to use any other editing program than Wondershare Filmora. I don't think this has the transcoding and proxy stuff. Thats why I ask if it will be about the same quality with 2.7k? Will it be easy to notice? And would the 2.7k image be in a different screen ratio? Like will it fill up the whole screen like 4K? I mistook my traveling date, I'm leaving for Bulgaria tomorrow.

I use the biggest 4K setting for my stuff and it is slightly slimmer on top and bottom than the next lower 4K resolution. I'm not sure what the aspect ration is of the 2.7K though. Just try it and look at it in your dji editor and it may show right on your ipad what the ratio looks like. I used Wondershare for about 5-6 months myself starting out btw. And it is a great beginner editor. But your gonna prob want to jump in with Premier Pro or Final Cut and see the difference. Lot better at rendering quality and editing ease because of being able to edit with smaller Proxy files. Youtube can help you every step of the way when learning Premier Pro.

With The Birds · Jun 26, 2017

Darwish said:
I'm not really wanting to use any other editing program than Wondershare Filmora. I don't think this has the transcoding and proxy stuff. Thats why I ask if it will be about the same quality with 2.7k? Will it be easy to notice? And would the 2.7k image be in a different screen ratio? Like will it fill up the whole screen like 4K? I mistook my traveling date, I'm leaving for Bulgaria tomorrow.

If your asking is 2.7k will be the same quality as 4k the answer is a simple no, 4k being roughly twice the resolution. It's not a simple question though, if you are transcoding for viewing on a 1080 monitor you probably won't see any difference. There are other advantages to 4k however, including being able to crop and zoom in post with a 4x zoom giving no perceptible loss on a 1080 monitor.

KevMo Photog · Jun 26, 2017

With The Birds said:
If your asking is 2.7k will be the same quality as 4k the answer is a simple no, 4k being roughly twice the resolution. It's not a simple question though, if you are transcoding for viewing on a 1080 monitor you probably won't see any difference. There are other advantages to 4k however, including being able to crop and zoom in post with a 4x zoom giving no perceptible loss on a 1080 monitor.

I think he is also questioning the aspect ratio of that resolution. But yes your right With The Birds.

tcope · Jun 26, 2017

You don't give enough information for an answer. What will you be using the video for? How will you be displaying the video? That is, what type of screen? What type of people will be viewing the video (will they be able to see the difference and is that important to them)? The list goes on and on.

At the end of the day... only you can determine the answer to these questions and then should be able to answer your own question.

DaRana · Jun 26, 2017

If you don't want to spend the $$ then DaVinci Resolve is a great tool, too. And not just for grading, the newer versions (v14 is in beta) is a pretty robust complete solution, and it is quickly becoming as popular as Premiere and Final Cut Pro, it seems. I've dabbled with it, but I'm not a pro and I'm a Premiere Pro user otherwise so for now I'm sticking with Premiere.

But there are tons of youtube videos for DaVinci Resolve training.

Best part? The standalone version is free. The only caveat is there is a learning curve with any of these apps - but once you get over the hump you won't really be able to fathom using anything less powerful.

For Resolutions, the top 4K resolution is "actual" 4k, cinema 4k which is a 1:1.9 aspect ratio which is what you see at the movies. The next step down is "tv" 4k, or UHD, which is 4k in 16:9 aspect ratio. The 2.7k is also 16:9, there is no 1:1.9 2.7K.

If your laptop can't handle the 100mbps 4K its honestly doubtful that it will handle the 80mbps 2.7k any better. Either way you're really going to need to transcode or use proxy files to edit them away from a more powerful machine. FWIW I was a little overwhelmed at the proxy editing at first, but once I figured out the workflow I can't imagine doing it any other way. Even on my high end workstation I transcode and do most of my logging and editing on the proxy files. And Final Cut Pro, Premiere Pro, and DaVinci Resolve all natively support a proxy workflow. In Premiere, when I ingest the proxy files are now automatically created int he background, and there's a little toggle button right in the UI to click and toggle between proxy files or originals.

KevMo Photog · Jun 26, 2017

DaRana said:
If you don't want to spend the $$ then DaVinci Resolve is a great tool, too. And not just for grading, the newer versions (v14 is in beta) is a pretty robust complete solution, and it is quickly becoming as popular as Premiere and Final Cut Pro, it seems. I've dabbled with it, but I'm not a pro and I'm a Premiere Pro user otherwise so for now I'm sticking with Premiere. But there are tons of youtube videos for DaVinci Resolve training.

Best part? The standalone version is free. The only caveat is there is a learning curve with any of these apps - but once you get over the hump you won't really be able to fathom using anything less powerful.

For Resolutions, the top 4K resolution is "actual" 4k, cinema 4k which is a 1:1.9 aspect ratio which is what you see at the movies. The next step down is "tv" 4k, or UHD, which is 4k in 16:9 aspect ratio. The 2.7k is also 16:9, there is no 1:1.9 2.7K.

If your laptop can't handle the 100mbps 4K its honestly doubtful that it will handle the 80mbps 2.7k any better. Either way you're really going to need to transcode or use proxy files to edit them away from a more powerful machine. FWIW I was a little overwhelmed at the proxy editing at first, but once I figured out the workflow I can't imagine doing it any other way. Even on my high end workstation I transcode and do most of my logging and editing on the proxy files. And Final Cut Pro, Premiere Pro, and DaVinci Resolve all natively support a proxy workflow. In Premiere, when I ingest the proxy files are now automatically created int he background, and there's a little toggle button right in the UI to click and toggle between proxy files or originals.

Thanks for the quote on the aspect ratio DaRana! And good info on editors too! I downloaded Davinci months ago and just never tried it since I forced myself to learn Premier first. Premier is def expensive for the hobbyist though!

DaRana · Jun 26, 2017

Yep, I'm in the same place with Premiere, KevMo. I've dabbled with it for many years and am now recalling digging in. Ive found that there are enough parallels with photography to make the video editing curve "easier" but enough differences (both actual and just terminology wise!) that trying to learn two apps at once plus the underlying skill doesn't seem like the best use of time.

it's been fun though!

KevMo Photog · Jun 26, 2017

DaRana said:
Yep, I'm in the same place with Premiere, KevMo. I've dabbled with it for many years and am now recalling digging in. Ive found that there are enough parallels with photography to make the video editing curve "easier" but enough differences (both actual and just terminology wise!) that trying to learn two apps at once plus the underlying skill doesn't seem like the best use of time. it's been fun though!

You are spot on DaRana! Being very acquainted with Photoshop for years and years now it has def helped with tackling Premier! But I am so glad I jumped in! Such a smooth piece of software! Rendering is awesome! And I never ever thought I would edit video! Thought it was something that I would never get! But with Youtube help and a friend that is a film maker it's not been too bad at all. Nothing too fancy yet mind you! LOL. But just simple clean short vids for me so far.

GadgetGuy · Jun 27, 2017

KevMo Photog said:
You are spot on DaRana! Being very acquainted with Photoshop for years and years now it has def helped with tackling Premier! But I am so glad I jumped in! Such a smooth piece of software! Rendering is awesome! And I never ever thought I would edit video! Thought it was something that I would never get! But with Youtube help and a friend that is a film maker it's not been too bad at all. Nothing too fancy yet mind you! LOL. But just simple clean short vids for me so far.

We need to get you editing continuous 4K 60 flight videos, covering 10 miles a flight! Mine are all 22-23 minutes! It's a vicarious flying experience without any of the risk of going down with the aircraft, in the event of a crash! PP CC 2017 is the bomb! Just wish the P4P 4K 60 video glitches weren't still present in the original files!

DaRana · Jun 27, 2017

GadgetGuy said:
We need to get you editing continuous 4K 60 flight videos, covering 10 miles a flight! Mine are all 22-23 minutes! It's a vicarious flying experience without any of the risk of going down with the aircraft, in the event of a crash! PP CC 2017 is the bomb! Just wish the P4P 4K 60 video glitches weren't still present in the original files!

I haven't jumped up to 4K 60 yet, sticking with 4K/24 H.265 as I tend to prefer that look myself. I can see how a continuous flight video would be different, though, and having the higher frame rate would be amazing.

But you just described a big part of my my deep fascination with drone flight. haven't hit 10 miles yet, max so far is 6.2mi, mostly because I always get distracted and stop to take pictures!! But decades of flight simulators, photography, and a deep fascination with aerial photography basically equals drones are my nirvana.

Layering in FPV just is icing on the cake for immersion!

I hope Litchi can add in the inline grading but still save d-log like the new Go 4 version does! Not really needed for how I use Autopilot but for Litchi FPV it would be nice to not have to choose between a greater immersion level and better video files.

DaRana · Jun 27, 2017

KevMo Photog said:
You are spot on DaRana! Being very acquainted with Photoshop for years and years now it has def helped with tackling Premier! But I am so glad I jumped in! Such a smooth piece of software! Rendering is awesome! And I never ever thought I would edit video! Thought it was something that I would never get! But with Youtube help and a friend that is a film maker it's not been too bad at all. Nothing too fancy yet mind you! LOL. But just simple clean short vids for me so far.

Yep! I've made a few videos over the years but without having a driving reason to do so it was always just a bit of voodoo magic difference from my photo editing skills. But taking the time to really dig in and figure out the tools (and the workflow and organization!!) suddenly things click. Love that feeling of "oh!" - I got that the other night after a sunset flight and a few things clicked. Suddenly the d-log video became, well, this - Just a short clip but the first real D-Log grade that made me happy!

GadgetGuy · Jun 27, 2017

DaRana said:
Yep! I've made a few videos over the years but without having a driving reason to do so it was always just a bit of voodoo magic difference from my photo editing skills. But taking the time to really dig in and figure out the tools (and the workflow and organization!!) suddenly things click. Love that feeling of "oh!" - I got that the other night after a sunset flight and a few things clicked. Suddenly the d-log video became, well, this -

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Just a short clip but the first real D-Log grade that made me happy!

Sideways flying, while keeping a level horizon on a P4P! What a treat!

GadgetGuy · Jun 27, 2017

DaRana said:
I haven't jumped up to 4K 60 yet, sticking with 4K/24 H.265 as I tend to prefer that look myself. I can see how a continuous flight video would be different, though, and having the higher frame rate would be amazing.

But you just described a big part of my my deep fascination with drone flight. haven't hit 10 miles yet, max so far is 6.2mi, mostly because I always get distracted and stop to take pictures!! But decades of flight simulators, photography, and a deep fascination with aerial photography basically equals drones are my nirvana. Layering in FPV just is icing on the cake for immersion! I hope Litchi can add in the inline grading but still save d-log like the new Go 4 version does! Not really needed for how I use Autopilot but for Litchi FPV it would be nice to not have to choose between a greater immersion level and better video files.

With a realistic 5 mile control radius with clear LOS, the only limitation is the battery and your imagination! Pick any direction and different times of day, and go out and back! Every flight will be different. You can cover over 78 square miles, from a single elevated launch point that has a panoramic unobstructed view!