Yale University Drone Delivery Service

[athearnsd45]

A new delivery service started by a group of Yale University students has been making the news rounds here in Connecticut:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/connecticut/articles/2020-02-17/yale-students-start-drone-delivery-service-on-campus

Are there special waivers companies can get to operate a service like this? Off the bat, rules like BVLOS operations, operations over people, and operations within KHVN Class D airspace come to mind. Most of Yale University underlies a 0-foot LAANC grid. The above-posted article mentions they've had a crash onto a walkway, which seems to indicate they are flying over people. Yale University is an urban campus deeply imbedded into the congestion of downtown New Haven, CT. Maybe it's a gimmic and their drones are only flying a hundred feet or so from the operator. Doesn't sound like it from the description, though. Thoughts?

 

[BigAl07]

Are there special waivers companies can get to operate a service like this? Off the bat, rules like BVLOS operations, operations over people, and operations within KHVN Class D airspace come to mind.

Yes it's possible to get waivers for those things.

Part 107 Waiver

www.faa.gov

 

[vincent228]

Ok. Living 2 towns away, and driving through downtown New Haven (where Yale is located) continuously. It is IMPOSSIBLE to A) not fly over people or crowds. B) keep line of sight at ANY time, unless the drone is 20 feet ahead of you. C) many of the buildings are Waaaaaaay more than 400 feet height, and would have to fly over them to drop down into a campus. And since the building is not being inspected, would not fall under the “over 400’ rule”. D) is directly in line of a restricted fly zone, of tweed new haven airport. Incredible.

 

[vincent228]

If anyone wants to see what much of the tale campus looks like, watch Indiana jones and the kingdom of the crystal skull. The college chase scene from the kgb was filmed there, and you will see the terrain I’m talking about.

 

[BigAl07]

.....many of the buildings are Waaaaaaay more than 400 feet height, and would have to fly over them to drop down into a campus. And since the building is not being inspected, would not fall under the “over 400’ rule”. .....

That Part 107 rule does not stipulate that you must be "inspecting" the structure to utilize that allowance of 400' above the structure. It's put into place to ALLOW for such actions but the rules don't mandate you have to be doing an inspection of "said" building to get allowance.

That doesn't mean they are flying legally but "not inspecting" doesn't make it illegal.

 

[vincent228]

OK. so even if you take that out. The who idea is an accident just waiting to happen.
Connecticut has a habit of allowing people to do things, then when something goes awry, they have a habit of punishing all the people who never broke the law, by going crazy with some really harsh law that will prohibit anyone from ever being able to do what they created, and then some. There is not one single place in that area where there are not buildings, trees and people out in the open.

I will put money on it right now.
If (when) something happens, and someone gets (God forbid) horribly hurt.
Yale and the State of Connecticut and the 2 senators they sent to Washington, will form a committee to ban drone activities all over, because of their "extreme" danger to the public.

want to wager?

 

[BigAl07]

OK. so even if you take that out. The who idea is an accident just waiting to happen.
Connecticut has a habit of allowing people to do things, then when something goes awry, they have a habit of punishing all the people who never broke the law, by going crazy with some really harsh law that will prohibit anyone from ever being able to do what they created, and then some. There is not one single place in that area where there are not buildings, trees and people out in the open.

I will put money on it right now.
If (when) something happens, and someone gets (God forbid) horribly hurt.
Yale and the State of Connecticut and the 2 senators they sent to Washington, will form a committee to ban drone activities all over, because of their "extreme" danger to the public.

want to wager?

Man I'm not going against your theory etc I just wanted to make sure anyone reading this thread gets the right information in regards to the regulations.

 

[athearnsd45]

Well, that didn't last long:

Yale drone delivery service temporarily suspended; could violate federal aviation law [New Haven Register, Conn.]

Feb. 19–NEW HAVEN — The student-run business that has been delivering food and other items to Yale University’s campus with drones apparently was operating in violation of federal law. Late

www.dailyrepublic.com

Wonder if these folks will be facing the thousands of dollars in fines like the friend of the guy over on the Rules & Regulations forum who flew over a bunch of friends on their boats.

 

[BigAl07]

Well, that didn't last long:

Yale drone delivery service temporarily suspended; could violate federal aviation law [New Haven Register, Conn.]

Feb. 19–NEW HAVEN — The student-run business that has been delivering food and other items to Yale University’s campus with drones apparently was operating in violation of federal law. Late

www.dailyrepublic.com

Wonder if these folks will be facing the thousands of dollars in fines like the friend of the guy over on the Rules & Regulations forum who flew over a bunch of friends on their boats.

And there you go!!

From the article:

"However, a spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration said Tuesday the business has not received waivers to fly above people or to fly within 5 miles of Tweed New Haven Regional Airport "

 

[vincent228]

Man I'm not going against your theory etc I just wanted to make sure anyone reading this thread gets the right information in regards to the regulations.

Lol! It’s all good. You are absolutely correct with the 400’ limit, and I am thankful you corrected my mistake.
I just lived too long in connecticut to see anything good for good people coming out of this. We do some pretty stupid thing here in the Nutmeg state. Lol

 

[vincent228]

And there you go!!

From the article:

BOOM!

But guess what? Just like the UPS truck can totally block a street, where you would get a $500 ticket. There are 2 new giant amazon warehouses in Connecticut. Let’s see how long it takes for them to be able to do the same.
It’s scary.

 

[Charlie_inspire]

i am one of the Inspire 2 pilots who worked as a contractor for Kiki Air. Very sad to see people just assume they were breaking laws. Made an account here to clarify a few things.

What we did is stood at the top of a high commercial building with perfect VLOS over Yale's campus and flew 0.5 miles out with a 3 nautical mile strobe light attached. The drone only flew very late at night when there is no crowds or much car traffic on the road. The Yale tech team they had was testing this new proprietary system that made flight over people legal. It's some crazy stuff that all of us had to sign NDA's to even see the thing... Their core team got something that could change the entire industry and are staying very quiet in case other startups/amazon or somethin founds out. One of the pilot working made a small mistake and was told to put the drone down ASAP for safety but the media reported as a crash.

The air space authorization belongs to one of the chief pilots and they flew with an active 107.29 waiver. I think they didn't list their approvals under the company name to not attract attention. None of us want to get our 107 certifications revoked because of them so we verified it before we took the job.

Ok. Living 2 towns away, and driving through downtown New Haven (where Yale is located) continuously. It is IMPOSSIBLE to A) not fly over people or crowds. B) keep line of sight at ANY time, unless the drone is 20 feet ahead of you. C) many of the buildings are Waaaaaaay more than 400 feet height, and would have to fly over them to drop down into a campus. And since the building is not being inspected, would not fall under the “over 400’ rule”. D) is directly in line of a restricted fly zone, of tweed new haven airport. Incredible.

 

[vincent228]

Isn’t it funny the way the press puts a spin on things?

 

[vincent228]

Since I have lived there all of my life, and know the area very well. Maybe you could get a satellite view of the area you were flying from & to, and I can verify to everyone you would have had VLOS, and dispel (and I apologize about my own quick conclusion m) any doubts.

 

[BigAl07]

Welcome to the forum @Charlie_inspire. I think what you and your team are doing is GREAT and I hope you're able to continue this research once things get ironed out.

I do see some flaws in your testing though (Coming from an FAA stand point):

The mere "complexity" of what you're doing, WHERE you're doing it, and WHEN you're doing it only adds to the potential for violating any # of Part 107 regulations. I would have suggested testing this a LONG way away from ANY people or cars and not under any type of controlled airspace.

Examples:

#1 - You stated one of the Chief Pilots has an Airspace Authorization for the area you're operating in. Good Deal!! Then you also state you're flying under an active ~107.29. Do you know that one is no good without the other unless the AA has your exact ~107.29 noted and approved within it? It's not assumed and not something you can just ad-hoc. The AA has to note your ~107.29 within or it doesn't count.

#2 - you said "no crowds or much car traffic on the road " ~107.39 doesn't say crowds. It states (cliff's notes version) "Fly a UAS over a person/people " Also a single "Car" on the road in the intended flight patch is 1 car too many unless it's stationary (red light/stop sign do not count).
In Section 107.39, Operations Over Human Beings, what does "over people" mean?

The term "over" refers to the flight of the small unmanned aircraft directly over any part of a person. For example, a small UAS that hovers directly over a person's head, shoulders, or extended arms or legs would be an operation over people. Similarly, if a person is lying down, for example at a beach, an operation over that person's torso or toes would also constitute an operation over people. An operation during which a small UAS flies over any part of any person, regardless of the dwell time, if any, over the person, would be an operation over people.


So it's easy to see how testing in the environment you are in is more than just difficult... the Project Manager should have mandated all testing be done in a place that's "Easier" to obey the rules and fly safely. The last thing you want is your program to be the Poster Child for drone regulation VIOLATIONS!!

We hope you can come back and keep us updated on the "interactions" with the FAA and good luck with your program.

Allen

 

[lasersbee]

A new delivery service started by a group of Yale University students has been making the news rounds here in Connecticut:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/connecticut/articles/2020-02-17/yale-students-start-drone-delivery-service-on-campus

Are there special waivers companies can get to operate a service like this? Off the bat, rules like BVLOS operations, operations over people, and operations within KHVN Class D airspace come to mind. Most of Yale University underlies a 0-foot LAANC grid. The above-posted article mentions they've had a crash onto a walkway, which seems to indicate they are flying over people. Yale University is an urban campus deeply imbedded into the congestion of downtown New Haven, CT. Maybe it's a gimmic and their drones are only flying a hundred feet or so from the operator. Doesn't sound like it from the description, though. Thoughts?

Yeah.... That's (and any commercial business wanting to use Drones in our airspace) what is going to greatly restrict or Kill our RC Model hobby.

Jerry

 

[dronesky]

When I first heard this story I thought that's what the problem is no one is told the rules or laws before flying a drone and Yale University students story proved my point now that more info is coming out I don't feel like it's any better since there was Part 107 pilots flying this delivery system like BigAl07 said should have been done away from people more in a rural setting

 

[vincent228]

I wanted to know why this statement alone was not wrong on so many levels.
I’m still learning, so please tell me where this alone would have been okay. Am I incorrect? We’re not talking about 1/2 hour before or after sunset.

“with a 3 nautical mile strobe light attached. The drone only flew very late at night when there is no crowds or much car traffic on the road”

 

[offroadpyro]

A new delivery service started by a group of Yale University students has been making the news rounds here in Connecticut:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/connecticut/articles/2020-02-17/yale-students-start-drone-delivery-service-on-campus

Are there special waivers companies can get to operate a service like this? Off the bat, rules like BVLOS operations, operations over people, and operations within KHVN Class D airspace come to mind. Most of Yale University underlies a 0-foot LAANC grid. The above-posted article mentions they've had a crash onto a walkway, which seems to indicate they are flying over people. Yale University is an urban campus deeply imbedded into the congestion of downtown New Haven, CT. Maybe it's a gimmic and their drones are only flying a hundred feet or so from the operator. Doesn't sound like it from the description, though. Thoughts?

Hmmm I live in CT and Yale is a definite NO fly zone.New Haven ct is mostly all no fly.Oh yea, money talks BS walks.Nothing but court houses and other government buildings including FBI headquarters.?‍?‍.. No biggie!