Update on my Crash

[DirectorDrew]

Well just got the quote from DJI for my crash on November 13th
$266. What surprises me is I don't see the price for my Camera/Gimbal which was pretty much broken off and hanging by a wire. I'm going to use my DJI Refresh Protection Plan. But, I just hate the fact they used data to say I RC input was responsive and how I did a full pitch foward and a roll right and yaw left leading to a crash. It was in P-GPS mode. But, it was in "TRIPOD mode". Anybody that has flown in tripod mode knows the speed is limited. In the video you can see I'm reaching max speeds in tripod mode and then out of nowhere the aircraft speeds up and starts spinning in speeds way faster than tripod mode even allow. I'm very confused. But, I guess I just don't have a leg to stand on.

Heres the video link for those who did not see my original post
Dropbox - DJI_0012.MOV

 

[kryptek]

So even if you pay for their protection plan, you still pay for repairs? I bought the plan Incase something happened, I’ll be disappointed if it’s a hey buy our insurance if something broke because of something we did we will fix it if you did it you pay.

 

[DirectorDrew]

So even if you pay for their protection plan, you still pay for repairs? I bought the plan Incase something happened, I’ll be disappointed if it’s a hey buy our insurance if something broke because of something we did we will fix it if you did it you pay.

Thats what I was confused about and this is my first time going through this whole process, so bare with me until its all over and I get my aircraft back. Heres what you can look forward to in the event if it happens to you.

November 13th - Crashed
November 14th- Shipped out
November 22nd - DJI (California) received unit
November 23rd-26th - Holiday/Weekend could not process repair or case.
November 27th - (10am) Acknowledged they received the aircraft and sent it to repair for evaluation. (4pm) evaluated repair (5pm) called them, they told me its now being sent to analysis team and I should have a quote by 24-48 hours
November 28th - (4pm) Quote of $266 sent to me and informed I was the one who crashed the aircraft (5pm) called them tried to fight the case, no luck. Told them to go through the Refresh protection plan so now they sent a request to get a $100 replacement unit, waiting on a new quote.

Sidenote - still not sure if I will even be approved of the $100 replacement unit. But, judging by the phone call it seems I will be honored they just didn't send me the $100 quote first as courtesy since your only allowed 2 replacement units at $100 and $150 cost.

So now I wait for the $100 replacement unit quote and I will proceed. All in all, I'm trying to speed this process up as I'm sure their customer service will be slammed through out the Holidays.

 

[kryptek]

Okay that makes sense. If crash my p4p I would just buy another one and ship out the broken one.

 

[DirectorDrew]

Okay that makes sense. If crash my p4p I would just buy another one and ship out the broken one.

I really wish I could do that. But, the way my bank account is setup lol

 

[kryptek]

I really wish I could do that. But, the way my bank account is setup lol

I was flying on a trail and while coming back it banked left right into a tree. The only thing that was damaged was the white cap popped off landing gear and a nice person climbed up the tree for me and grabbed it for me. Right now I wouldn’t be too worried about purchasing another drone, it’s winter it’s been steadily 1-7f this week. It won’t get warm enough to fly for awhile so if I did bring it out and crash now I wouldn’t be upset. But come May to August I’d buy another one.

 

[DirectorDrew]

Yeah I understand. I'm just lost at the fact they are ignoring what really happened. They did get RC input correct as I tried to combat the erratic spinning and heading straight towards a building. The fact that it was in tripod mode and the video proves that the aircraft was moving way faster than tripod mode allows tells me it was a system error. Had I not touched the control sticks and let it crash on its own. I wonder if the repair outcome would be different. Sorry, DJI it was reflex for me to at least try to get my aircraft out of the system failure mode.

 

[Meta4]

But, it was in "TRIPOD mode". Anybody that has flown in tripod mode knows the speed is limited. In the video you can see I'm reaching max speeds in tripod mode and then out of nowhere the aircraft speeds up and starts spinning in speeds way faster than tripod mode even allow. I'm very confused.

I'm just lost at the fact they are ignoring what really happened.

You were in tripod mode ... until you lost GPS by flying into a confined building canyon that blocked most of the GPS satellites.
After that your Phantom wasn't in tripod mode.

If you check the manual to see what they say about tripod mode it tells you:

Only use Tripod Mode where the GPS signal is strong or light conditions are ideal for the vision system.
If GPS signal is lost and the vision system cannot function, it will automatically switch to Atti mode.
In this case, flight speed will increase and the aircraft cannot hover in place.
UseTripod Mode carefully​

 

[BigAl07]

You were in tripod mode ... until you lost GPS by flying into a confined building canyon that blocked most of the GPS satellites.
After that your Phantom wasn't in tripod mode.

If you check the manual to see what they say about tripod mode it tells you:

Only use Tripod Mode where the GPS signal is strong or light conditions are ideal for the vision system.
If GPS signal is lost and the vision system cannot function, it will automatically switch to Atti mode.
In this case, flight speed will increase and the aircraft cannot hover in place.
UseTripod Mode carefully​

Good work @Meta4

This is a classic example of why we need to be infinity familiar with our aircraft in every flight mode as well as realizing what each sensor does for the flight modes and what the Fail-Safe is when a sensor is no longer sending data to the Flight Controller.

 

[DirectorDrew]

Good work @Meta4

This is a classic example of why we need to be infinity familiar with our aircraft in every flight mode as well as realizing what each sensor does for the flight modes and what the Fail-Safe is when a sensor is no longer sending data to the Flight Controller.

I would like to agree and been flying around with the Phantom 3 Pro since release in way harsher environments with no problems and not even close calls. As you can see in the video I made sure the aircraft was lined up and everything before I continued. I don't fly recklessly or carelessly. When it "lost gps signal" I had no control over the aircraft and it just went into a spinning motion. I tried to recover controls and it wouldn't work. As it was happening I told my partner next to me, I lost control and its going to crash, so it did.

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Lets be real. This a commercial straight from DJI introducing the Phantom 4 Pro. Which shows the aircraft going in way worse environments than which I went.
You can see in the commercial the aircraft in between tighter caves and mountain like environments, Through buildings and underpasses. Look at the shot at 2:03. In a parking garage and out to a downtown area environment. I would never put my aircraft in those risks as I know better. But, yet DJI makes it seem like these type of environments are worry free. Lets just say I lost GPS signal like you claim. I understand not all obstacle avoidance sensors are working when normal fly. But, does that mean they are all turned off? No is the answer. With it crashing into the building like it did. It was a complete system malfunction. One of the obstacle avoidance sensors should of picked up the spinning motion and seen the object (building in my situation) and should have stopped the drone from flying any further. I'm not going to argue it is what it is. This post is more for letting other flyers know that you really cant trust these aircraft no matter how skilled you think you are at flying. They are erratic and will do what they want at any moment.

 

[MapMaker53]

Definitely user error, which we discussed at length in the original post. Confined space, loss of satellites, plus wind turbulence in the corridor and a lack of understanding of the equipment. No mystery here.

 

[sar104]

Well just got the quote from DJI for my crash on November 13th
$266. What surprises me is I don't see the price for my Camera/Gimbal which was pretty much broken off and hanging by a wire. I'm going to use my DJI Refresh Protection Plan. But, I just hate the fact they used data to say I RC input was responsive and how I did a full pitch foward and a roll right and yaw left leading to a crash. It was in P-GPS mode. But, it was in "TRIPOD mode". Anybody that has flown in tripod mode knows the speed is limited. In the video you can see I'm reaching max speeds in tripod mode and then out of nowhere the aircraft speeds up and starts spinning in speeds way faster than tripod mode even allow. I'm very confused. But, I guess I just don't have a leg to stand on.

Heres the video link for those who did not see my original post
Dropbox - DJI_0012.MOV

These issues were addressed in your original thread - as was pointed out there and again here by @Meta4, the aircraft was no longer in Tripod mode, or even P-GPS mode, as a result of insufficient satellites. Do you disagree with that analysis or are you just ignoring it because it's not the explanation that you want to hear?

As for relying on DJI promotional videos as evidence that it should not have happened - that's not a reasonable argument. Many of their videos in tight locations are using vision positioning but, that aside, watching promotional videos is not a replacement for reading and understanding the limitations of the aircraft described in the operating manual.

 

[BigAl07]

I want to stress your last sentence:

This post is more for letting other flyers know that you really cant trust these aircraft no matter how skilled you think you are at flying. They are erratic and will do what they want at any moment.

This is the difference between flying a GYRO stabilized and GPS guided aircraft and actually flying an aircraft. When the training wheels don't work the majority of UAS operators don't know what's happening let alone what to do to continue to FLY the aircraft safely. You only have as much control as the onboard Flight Controller (FC) will allow and when things get whacky you need to have Plan B already in your head and ready to go instinctively.

 

[sar104]

I want to stress your last sentence:



This is the difference between flying a GYRO stabilized and GPS guided aircraft and actually flying an aircraft. When the training wheels don't work the majority of UAS operators don't know what's happening let alone what to do to continue to FLY the aircraft safely. You only have as much control as the onboard Flight Controller (FC) will allow and when things get whacky you need to have Plan B already in your head and ready to go instinctively.

And to add to that, you really can't blame the FC if you fly it in a location where it does not have a good enough view of the sky for the GPS system to work.

 

[Meta4]

I would like to agree and been flying around with the Phantom 3 Pro since release in way harsher environments with no problems and not even close calls. As you can see in the video I made sure the aircraft was lined up and everything before I continued. I don't fly recklessly or carelessly. When it "lost gps signal" I had no control over the aircraft and it just went into a spinning motion. I tried to recover controls and it wouldn't work. As it was happening I told my partner next to me, I lost control and its going to crash, so it did.
Lets be real.

Yes ... lets get real.
How is what happened in your incident different from what the manual warns about using Tripod Mode?

Only use Tripod Mode where the GPS signal is strong or light conditions are ideal for the vision system.
If GPS signal is lost and the vision system cannot function, it will automatically switch to Atti mode.
In this case, flight speed will increase and the aircraft cannot hover in place.
UseTripod Mode carefully​

One of the obstacle avoidance sensors should of picked up the spinning motion and seen the object (building in my situation) and should have stopped the drone from flying any further.
I'm not going to argue it is what it is.

Without GPS and suitable VPS conditions, the Phantom does not have the ability to stop itself.

This post is more for letting other flyers know that you really cant trust these aircraft no matter how skilled you think you are at flying.

As a pilot it's your responsibility to understand the limitations of the technology and work within them.
If you blithely fly into unsuitable environments or conditions and it ends badly, it's not DJI's fault.

They are erratic and will do what they want at any moment.

Quite the opposite. The Phantom is very reliable and predictable.
Unfortunately some operators are erratic and will do what they want at any moment.

 

[Dirby]

I have seen several price quotes for repair and it seems that there 2 hour labor rate comes up every time.
130.00.

 

[OOO]

I would like to agree and been flying around with the Phantom 3 Pro since release in way harsher environments with no problems and not even close calls. As you can see in the video I made sure the aircraft was lined up and everything before I continued. I don't fly recklessly or carelessly. When it "lost gps signal" I had no control over the aircraft and it just went into a spinning motion. I tried to recover controls and it wouldn't work. As it was happening I told my partner next to me, I lost control and its going to crash, so it did.

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Lets be real. This a commercial straight from DJI introducing the Phantom 4 Pro. Which shows the aircraft going in way worse environments than which I went.
You can see in the commercial the aircraft in between tighter caves and mountain like environments, Through buildings and underpasses. Look at the shot at 2:03. In a parking garage and out to a downtown area environment. I would never put my aircraft in those risks as I know better. But, yet DJI makes it seem like these type of environments are worry free. Lets just say I lost GPS signal like you claim. I understand not all obstacle avoidance sensors are working when normal fly. But, does that mean they are all turned off? No is the answer. With it crashing into the building like it did. It was a complete system malfunction. One of the obstacle avoidance sensors should of picked up the spinning motion and seen the object (building in my situation) and should have stopped the drone from flying any further. I'm not going to argue it is what it is. This post is more for letting other flyers know that you really cant trust these aircraft no matter how skilled you think you are at flying. They are erratic and will do what they want at any moment.

I think if you know the limitations of your aircraft, GPS, OA and VPS, the place you are flying may not be a major problem. I shot this video with my P4P.

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[AbqDroner]

I think if you know the limitations of your aircraft, GPS, OA and VPS, the place you are flying may not be a major problem. I shot this video with my P4P.

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Incredible video. Great flying, and great editing. Well done.

 

[andy_k]

I'm very confused.

I think that you must be confused if you carry on refusing to acknowledge that you plain and simple ran out of talent and ability flying (in an area where you shouldn't really have been flying) beyond your skill set and understanding of the aircraft - if you can't see that you did anything wrong it's only a matter of time before the next insurance claim

 

[PhantomWetSuits]

You were not by chance running the older firmware were you. Because there was a problem with Tripod mode just dropping into atty mode on it own and a fatal yaw error to boot.