Starting F550 Build and Have Questions

[rebelyellNC]

Hey Guys, first post in this forum, though I've been on Phantom Pilots since 2014. You can see my current bird in the signature, but I'm preparing to start an F550 build. One of the things I'm wondering about is the tx/rx combo. I kind of wanted to stick with DJI components, so I initially thought I 'd score the DT7/DR16 combo. I downloaded the manual on the DT7, just to do some reading, and it appears it has a free throttle stick with no auto center. Is this correct? If so, I'm not sure that's what I want. If anyone has an F550, could you offer some suggestions for tx/rx combos, or maybe even a split system from different manufacturers? Thanks in advance...

 

[unit338]

rebelyellNC- Years ago I started out with a F450 And a F550 both with the DT7/DR16 combos. I quickly
found out I needed more channels and went with Futaba systems. The DT7/DR16 combos worked fine
but I have two of the systems on the shelf now gathering dust. There are numerous systems out there
that are cheaper than Futaba and work well but I have no experience with them.

 

[rebelyellNC]

Thanks unit338, for getting back to me so quickly. It's good to know the combo works well, but I was mainly interested in the DT7 having a free throttle stick instead of auto center. Did you have any issues with that??? Thanks...

 

[unit338]

rebelyellNC- My DT7 radios both had auto center sticks and the copters would
stay in position (GPS mode) while you were filming. I had no trouble at all. I was
using the NAZA V2 and never had a problem.

 

[rebelyellNC]

Hey thanks, man. That's what I needed t know. All the pics of the DT7, including in the User Manual, show the throttle stick free and not centered. That's a relief, so I can move on with ordering the combo. Thanks again...

 

[rebelyellNC]

OK, for anyone, one other question. In searching for the DT7/DR16 combo, I have come across TWO DIFFERENT transmitters, even though they have the same model number. One has one power led on front, runs off 4 AA batts, and has the 7th channel LEVER on the bottom. The other one has one power led PLUS four %charge leds on front, runs of internal lipo, and has a 7th channel WHEEL on the upper left corner. What's going on with this? Are they both actually a DT7? and if so, which one is the newer model? Any help would be greatly appreciated since I need to get this ordered as soon as possible. Hoping for it to arrive with or soon after the F550. Thanks again...

 

[rebelyellNC]

In case other first time F550 builders out there are interested, I found a partial answer. Every site I visited, looking for the DT7, had the older model with the same price of $159. On the few occasions that I did find the new model with the internal lipo, four charge LEDs, and pitch wheel on upper left corner, the model name and number were the same, except the explanation would say "New Version 2" and the price was consistent across sites at $179. So I guess that's how you know the difference.

 

[royster]

Rebel- Is this your first build?
I ask because I would like to attempt to put a UAV kit together, & is the F550 a good start, or is this a more advanced build?
You can tell I;m new, I do fly a P3A, used to build/fly/crash, mainly crash! RC planes,
But, I'd love to build a bird over the winter.
Where does one start?
I did post an "ask" like this some months ago, can't locate it

 

[rebelyellNC]

Hey Royster, I'm glad there's finally some interest out there in a F550 build. I've been searching this forum and all the others on Phantom Pilots for all the info I can grab, and there's just not much out there. I even went to Google and searched all kinds of qualifiers dealing with F550. I got some build videos and links to other forums, but still have a lot of questions.

I would like to attempt to put a UAV kit together

From what I've read on this and other forums, the F550 (or F450) is one of the best kits available for the DIYer. Most of the posts that contrast the two, say that they are glad they got the F550, though it does present some challenges. Some of the guys that started with the F450 said they wished they had gotten the F550, so if you start big, you won't have to upgrade later .

is the F550 a good start, or is this a more advanced build

I think the answer above pretty much takes care of this, BUT bear in mind, I have never done a build from scratch before, so I can't tell you the level of difficulty involved. I ordered my unit a week and a half ago and only part of it was delivered. The rest is LOST and I'm in negotiations with Ebay to try to get it reshipped or get a refund and start all over. So I got all pumped up watching build videos, and now have a little box with a NAZA-M V2 flight system and nothing to attach it to. This is a real drag....

You can tell I;m new

HEY! We all start somewhere. As you can see in my sig, I've customized the heck out of my P1.1.1 and learned a ton of stuff doing so. Getting your feet wet and your hands dirty is a great way to learn.

used to build/fly/crash

Yep, been there, done that. Had some epic crashes, had one flyaway (recovered), and one crash in the swamp that was unrecoverable.

Where does one start?

I spent literally four to six hours a day for one and a half to two weeks, searching for the right kit, not the right kind, I knew I wanted the F550, but I wanted the best price. Most were around $400 with all the goodies except FPV. I found mine for $274 and jumped on it. I don't know if the lost package was a fluke or an indication of the company's ethics. PM me for a link to the site, but I don't want to disparage them here, not knowing yet if it was a mistake or deceptive practices.

I did post an "ask" like this some months ago, can't locate it

If you go to your profile page, you should be able to access every post you've ever done, as well as any PM conversations you've had with other members. As I mentioned earlier, it's kind of a downer searching for F550 info here and not finding much interest. I was even answering some posts that were 6 months to a year old, so I'm really glad to get yours.
OK, I guess that's it. Hope I answered all your questions. If not, just shake the bush or PM me. It's good to ask questions openly on the forum though, that way others can learn at the same time.

Later...

 

[royster]

I;m going to take the plunge & go for the F550 kit for sure, Looking at a site today- F550 regular price 860.00 on sale for 450.00, comes with latest GPS & Naza M-V2, which might as well be Dutch to me at this point of my UAV knowledge.
Had some videos of flying the F500, looks like they do handle much like the Phantom, meaning quite stable.
Love the look of it!
They gave some sample of the build instructions, I had to laugh, certainly something lost in the translation to English! But, I figure I;ve built planes, gliders from scratch so I think I can build the F500. Now, programming her may be a whole new world, but, I;m sure there will be people that can help one through the process.
For an RC, Futaba looks to be rated very well, but, not going to worry about RC yet, I wonder if one can use the Phantoms RC,
I;ve got Lots to learn!
Oh, meant to ask, You get all your parts & pieces yet? That's a question too, where best to order. There is a new store opened up in North Toronto, all things that fly & an authorised DJI repair centre, I must drop in there very soon
Cheers

 

[rebelyellNC]

Looking at a site today- F550 regular price 860.00 on sale for 450.00, comes with latest GPS & Naza M-V2

Hey royster, good to hear from you. Congrats on pulling the trigger, or at least making the decision to go for the F550. Be careful of this site you mentioned where its regular price is $860. I've been researching this for two solid weeks now, hours each day, and 90% of the sites are at the exact same price of $549, and that includes the NAZA-M V2 flight system. So I would walk, ...no RUN from that site above. The lowest I've seen for the combo kit with NAZA is $274, and that was a total ripoff. More on that later...

GPS & Naza M-V2, which might as well be Dutch to me at this point of my UAV knowledge

Don't worry about that, I'm still learning as well. Watch all the build videos you can, but watch out of incorrect info. One video I saw showed measuring the GPS puck offset location vertically from the top plate, when all the other sites and videos showed measuring it from the bottom plate, where the NAZA is anyway. Also watch out for the negative and positive notations on the measurements; they could make your craft lose its mind. Hopefully, I'll be at that point when you get yours and could help out.

Love the look of it!

Yeah, me too, totally awesome. Even without skids, it looks great, but would be too close to the ground for me here. We have a lot of sand here in the swamp, and the props would kick up too much debris to be taking off from that close to the ground. The wide stance landing skids that come with most kits is probably what I'll go with. I really like the retractable gear, but the weight will destroy your flight times, according to some reviews I've read.

not going to worry about RC yet, I wonder if one can use the Phantoms RC

You could use the Phantom RC, but would have to get a Phantom receiver to bind with. I'm going with the latest tx/rx combo from DJI, the DT7/DR16. It has an internal lipo battery that recharges by USB and it has four LEDs on the front that show percent of charge remaining. Also, instead of a pitch control lever on the bottom for a gimbal, it has a wheel at the top left corner which locks at center. It also has a throttle stick that locks in the descend position. It's a little pricey, but I figure going all DJI will cut down on compatibility issues.

You get all your parts & pieces yet?

The answer is NO! I've been through a nightmare with this stupid chink company and had to get a refund. Sending back the PARTIAL shipment today, then have to wait 6 days AFTER they receive it for my refund.

That's a question too, where best to order.

This is the only hard part I've experienced so far. Not a lot of folks (on this side of the pond anyway) have the F550 ARF combo kit. One place to stay away from is "outletstore" on Ebay. They are the ones with the lowest price, so if you do a Google search, they always come up first. That was my mistake. I couldn't believe the price and jumped right away. The old adage "if it's too good to be true..." really holds up here. These jokers only sent me the little NAZA box, and never sent the F550 kit. Then right in the middle of negotiations, they decide to take a FIFTEEN DAY holiday to shoot fireworks and eat fried rice, ...something about year of the rooster or whatever. They sent me an e-mail saying they were "out of the office" for 15 days to celebrate. So I guess the rest of the world is supposed to stop all financial dealings because of that???!!! There's a place called Rotor Logic that has fair pricing and they have outlets on Ebay and Amazon, as well as buying direct from their site. Only problem with them is that their customer service is by e-mail only, so you can lose a lot of time in between questions and answers about your order. One more thing, I started to get mine from a place called Helipal, but it's in China and they wanted ONE HUNDRED SIX DOLLARS for shipping!!! so watch out for them.

So I started this ordering process all over again Saturday. I still don't have an acknowledgement e-mail and no USPS tracking, but it was the weekend, so we'll see how it goes today. I found another build video in the meantime, which is better than all the others I've seen and has some important cautions to watch out for, like the one I mentioned above about locating the GPS puck. I'll keep you updated on the build, IF I ever get the kit .

 

[rebelyellNC]

Hey royster, quick update, I just got my tracking number for the F550 ARF kit with NAZA-M V2. So it's FINALLY on the way ! Now if I can just make it to Friday without chewing my nails off .

 

[royster]

LOL, great story, well, not so much for you!
It shouldn't be such an ordeal to order, jeez!!
New hobby store just opened up, Northern outskirts of the city, which is great for us that live North of Toronto, Come to think of it, when is the last time you saw a new Hobby store opening up, most I frequented closed their doors eons ago, so this is great!
Also, the're a DJI dealer & carry full line of DJI, Parrot & 3DR products. Friend of mine took his P3P to them as he couldn't install latest firmware, says their really great people. I don't mind paying as little more to order parts/UAV kits from them, rather than suffer through the wait for the slow trawler delivery from China & the occasional, Sorry, its the year of the Baboon!!
Thanks for all the tips/info, So glad your starting this build before I do, I just know I will learn from all your mistakes (that didn't sound very nice, did it). You know what I mean!
I will stay in touch,
Cheers

 

[rebelyellNC]

Copy that. I sure hope this one goes off without a hitch.

Film at 11...

 

[rebelyellNC]

OK, a heads up for anyone following the build. Just got the F550 ARF kit and everything is in the package. Started mounting motors and had to take a break after two. These old eyes ain't what they used to be. Also the EXTREME lack of instructions doesn't help any. Got two bags of screws, neither bag labeled. Should have gotten 24 of M3x8, got 32 instead, which is good unless you're trying to identify by quantity. Should have gotten 32 of M2.5x6, got 40 instead. Like I said, it's good to have extra, but had to guess at the size by the "8" and "6" and hope that was the length. Came back and mounted two more motors, then break time and posted this. The ESC wiring is waaaaaaaaay long. I don't remember seeing that in the videos, so I guess I'll be bundling that under the arms. More on that later...

One more thing just came up. My wimpy 25 watt soldering iron will not even begin to heat the Power Distribution Board hot enough to tin the soldering points. I guess it's good that the board is as heavy as it is, which should make it plenty strong. But if you're considering an F550 build, be sure to have a heavy enough soldering iron. I just scored a Weller 40 watt soldering station with variable heat control, so I hope it's hot enough maxed out to tin the points.

One other thing, I read last night about using two bottom boards (with power distribution points) and turn the top one upside down, in order to have additional places to power accessories and supply a BEC. Sounds pretty good, but haven't seen any pics of one yet.

 

[royster]

I don't suppose its recommended to cut/shorten ESC wiring, if it is way to long?
I'm thinking not just the weight of extra wiring, but, trying to bundle it up & stash it, if its way to long?

 

[rebelyellNC]

I don't suppose its recommended to cut/shorten ESC wiring, if it is way to long?

Hey man, ...yep, that's exactly what you do with the new E305 Tuned Propulsion System. Those ESC power wires must be over a foot long, but I watched a video where the guy said you would probably be a little hesitant to cut something you paid so much for, but cut away.

I'm thinking not just the weight of extra wiring, but, trying to bundle it up & stash it, if its way to long?

Yeah, I had planned to bundle it, but then was worried about the weight, so did some more searching and sure enough, you cut it to fit, with a little extra in case of emergencies. Yep, you guessed it, I had an emergency. I HATE working with a central insulated conductor with braided shielding around it, which is under another insulated layer. So I had already cut three or four ESCs to fit perfectly and was on the next one, very carefully cutting around the outer insulation layer to expose the braided shield. And then, as I pulled to get the insulation off, ...nothing happened . I knew I cut all the way around and didn't want to cut around again, for fear of cutting through the shield. But I did so gently cut just a hair deeper and pulled again, and the shield and insulation came off together. Thank goodness I cut just a little, maybe a quarter inch too long for just such an occurrence. So I was able to salvage the bad cut and wire it up anyway. Problem is, the next two were the same way !!! I don't know how, but something got in between the outer insulation and the shield and bonded them together. So on the last two, I cut carefully around the outer layer, then cut a line lengthwise to the end and peeled the insulation off. That seemed to work fine.

At present, I've got all the ESCs wired, soldered, fixed to the underside of the arm with cable ties (color matched of course ), and all the signal wires with the three pin header bundled and tied in the same manner, between the ESC and where the arm meets the bottom plate. Also all six motors mounted and plugged into the ESCs, all six arms mounted to the bottom plate, the NAZA-M V2 mounted in the center of the bottom plate, and all the motors wired into the NAZA. My DT7 transmitter and DR16 receiver just arrived, so I got the rx mounted and wired to the NAZA as well. Next, I'm placing the LED on the underside of the bottom plate in the very center. That way, during flight I can see the LED status at all times in all orientations. A number of folks have placed them on the GPS staff pointing to the rear, but that means if you're on the return flight home, you can't see the LED. Also I've seen some place it on one of the legs. Again, depending on orientation, it will at times be blocked from view.

So it looks like the PMU V2 is the only thing left to mount on the bottom plate (until I get my iOSD mini) and I'll be able to affix the top plate and begin software configuration and calibration. I have to take frequent breaks, because it's so tedious, working to keep all the wiring neat and out of the way of other components. I'll probably post a pic or two next time.

BTW, the new Weller 40 watt soldering station is a dream. It worked perfectly for tinning the solder points on the bottom board and even for affixing the XT60 plug to the main power wires. More later...

 

[rebelyellNC]

Things have gone horribly wrong! I was all set to post some pics of the awesome bird, but when I hooked up to the NAZA Assistant, no cigar. I got the driver installed in Windows 10, which is a feat in itself, but the bird doesn't show in Assistant, and the Transmitter won't even show in RC Assistant. I was just a few clicks away from my first flight, and now this. Very disappointing, so not in the mood to post any pics. I really don't even want to look at the bird until I get this figured out. Sure hope someone will find this and help.

OK, good news, IT'S SOLVED!!! I got the fix from here:

Connect DJI Driver to Windows 10 and NAZA-M V2 Software

So if anyone has this same trouble, this fix works like a charm. I'm outta here...

 

[rebelyellNC]

Now that the scorched earth phase of building is over, it's time for some pics:

What a fun build! I couldn't resist firing 'er up once, so I set the RC for ATTI and hit the CSC. I couldn't believe how quiet it was. I was expecting the angry bees sound of the Phantom but louder. Instead, I got a whisper quiet whirr of the blades at idle, and even when I lifted off from the kitchen floor (yes, I was nervous), it was still a whoosh sound instead of a buzz. I only went up about a foot and hovered, then brought her back down. Just wanted to make sure everything was good, and it was. So tomorrow morning is the maiden flight. Will post the results...

 

[rebelyellNC]

OK guys, just about to close this one out. Flew three more times to establish flight time. With one Phantom 2200 mAh battery, AUW is 1427 grams and flight time was around 3 and half minutes . Yeah, dismal at best. This thing is as heavy as a frozen turkey, but flies like a razor blade. So I used two 2200 mAh batteries and got 7 minutes 43 seconds. My target battery is a Turnigy 6600mAh 4S 14.8V 60C Hardcase Pack. It's $70 at HobbyKing, so considering the flight time, maybe I should look into a 8000 mAh. Long distance FPV is my goal, just like with the P1.1.1 in my sig, but even the 6600 is 800g and that will put me near the 2400 max takeoff weight.

There is one other thing I wanted to include for other guys considering the build. I wanted the Status LED on the underside, so it could be seen from all orientations. I discovered a minor drawback with that decision, however. When you fire up the bird, you can't see the LED, unless you slip your hand under the skids to reflect the status of satellites locked, home lock, nose direction, ready for takeoff, etc. It's just a minor inconvenience and doesn't occur during low light situations, such as early morning or late evening. I guess I was kind of expecting the same result as with the Phantom, not realizing that the ESC LEDs on the arms are gone. Oh well, no worries; it's worth slipping the hand under it before takeoff as a tradeoff for having the LED visible at all times in the air.

It would be nice to hear from other F550 owners with experience using their batteries and flight times. Until then, I guess I'll just keep the twin 2200s and fly VLOS like a good boy .