Sooooo..... Whose returning their P4?
- Thread starter oblivie
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I've now had a chance to do a few more flights with the P4 and am not as worried as initially. By turning OFF collision avoidance, various things change:
I may still bind my original P3P 'A' controller with the P4 to see if that improves the range, but once I have 2 miles I am pretty much good.
- Speed goes from 22mph to 35-38mph
- Range went from ~6k' to ~11k' (still no where near the 21k' with no issues I had on P3P, but better)
- Battery life seems to be a bit better - I'm still running to only 45-50% each flight so not really testing this.
I may still bind my original P3P 'A' controller with the P4 to see if that improves the range, but once I have 2 miles I am pretty much good.
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I will definitely be keeping mine. P4 is the best performing phantom so far it beats P3P in EVERY aspect, comes with a slurry of new features HW and SW and is priced similarly to P3P at release. The P4 gives much more confidence when flying, again in EVERY aspect, from holding gps in moderate winds to returning home after a signal drop out. The complaints seem strange and either a few bugs need to be ironed out OR a few faulty batches made it out the door, here's a screen shot.
2.5 Miles @48MPH and 75% BATT remaining.
This is OTB performance in a busy region with plenty of interference, this is in UK CAA "low powermode".
Of coarse this was not my flight it was a friends that I witnessed.
2.5 Miles @48MPH and 75% BATT remaining.
This is OTB performance in a busy region with plenty of interference, this is in UK CAA "low powermode".
Of coarse this was not my flight it was a friends that I witnessed.
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Welp, I gave it a try. Guess we all knew this would happen.
dirkclod
Premium Pilot
I'm am trying to decide if I should take the plunge. This thread is all over the place. Is someone able to sum-up what the actual current flaws are that are making people return their birds?
Not enough improvements to justify the price.
RANGE
- There have been mixed reports (anecdotal) about the range. Some say it's better than the P3, others say it's worse. I've only seen one post so far from someone who ran range tests in the same place, on the same day from the 2 different units and they reported that the P3P flew further. If ALL of the reports are true - it may point to some pretty awful quality control issues at DJI
Flight Time
- Once again - mixed anecdotal reports. This metric depends a lot on how you fly it and which features are enabled. I think the consensus is that the flight time is not 5 minutes longer than the P3P as it was advertised to be - but if you were to fly the 2 birds the same way/speed/altitude - the flight time would be similar on the 2 products
Obstacle Avoidance
- A flawed implementation because sensors are only on the front and most videographers/photographers will be flying sideways or backwards a large percentage of the time in order to get the shots they need. OA is completely useless in these situations
- I've also seen a video in which the P4 flew happily in to a large cluster of tree branches even though OA was active.
- At best, this feature, in its current state, is a gimmick that MAY work, MOST of the time when flying directly at a large obstacle with the nose pointing at the obstacle.
Visual Tracking
- I haven't seen many complaints about this. Because of that, I would assume that it works reasonably well.
Camera
- Same camera as P3P with a slightly better lens. I haven't read many complaints or compliments about the upgraded camera. Disappointing that it's still only 12 MP.
Speed
- I've seen no complaints about the new Sport Mode speed. Obviously, flying faster will deplete your battery more quickly. Don't expect 20 minute flights in sport mode.
Conclusion
- The P4 on its own is a great product although DJI exaggerated it's capabilities in an attempt to differentiate it from the P3P and justify the more expensive price.
- Far more value can be achieved by purchasing a Phantom 3 Professional and using the money you save to purchase extra batteries and upgrades! (Antenna booster, prop guards, sun shade, carbon fibre props, headlight, carrying case or backpack)
If money is no object and you simply must have the latest and greatest, you'll be very happy with the P4. It doesn't start to lose its lustre until you put it beside the P3P and compare price tags.
*Disclaimer - I own the Phantom 3 Advanced. The information in this post is my OPINION based on reading many threads about the subject, watching many videos and sifting through all of the materials while ignoring the ridiculous claims/posts that are based on emotion instead of fact. I hope this summary helps at least a little! If not - please take it for what it is - an unbiased and objective attempt to help.
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That is fair comment but you are saying obstacle avoidance is flawed where as I think it is a great feature that works hand in hand with active track and follow me, it also has made RTH even more reliable and less scary. A good performing P3P vs one of these apparently faulty P4's and your comment rings true, however my unmodded P4 p**ses all over my unmodded P3P they are in different leagues.
*Range - close but "non faulty" P4's win, my P4 has gone nearly 13,000ft now and although I have not done controlled testing I am pretty sure my P3P only manages 12k from that same launch point and flight paths, I will test this.
*Battery - not close at all, I took a 25 minute flight today with the P4 at 350-400ft alt in strong winds with plenty of flying, my P3P without battery mod wouldn't even get in the same ball park.
*Power - not close, P4 in sports mode tears through wind like a rocket compared to my P3P.
*Speed - not close P4 demolishes it.
*Agility - again P4 but I guess this goes hand in hand with power, considering P4 is carrying more tech and is heavier this is great.
*Features - not close, let's be honest P4 is killing P3* in the soft/hardware dptmt already and the 3rd party engineers haven't even started exploiting things yet.
*Camera - close, but again goes to P4.
I feel really bad for the guys who's factory P3P's are out performing their P4's, seems you guys have been screwed. If my P3P flew away again tomorrow, I would NOT feel the need to replace it.
P.S. Everyone is ranting about how DJI lied and exaggerated things.... that is not important to me, the important thing to me is, if the P4 is better than the P3P which in my case is absolutely yes, they were both released at similar prices so if you do not personally own one of these "faulty" units then I do not understand your problem.
A small percentage of people are complaining about range on the P4 COMPARED(key word) to P3P, the same people will admit that the P4 has the P3 beat in every other aspect. So even the people hating on P4's are saying that out of the box the only argument for P3P>P4 is range, now given that there is a online P4 distance leaderboard where factory P4's are doing exactly what (and more) a factory P3P would be capable of I am now really failing to see the P3P vs P4 argument, these comparison thread titles need to start being renamed
"broken P4 vs P3P".
To summarise, It seems like there are people making new purchases of the P3P because they have been told it's better, but there MUST be ALOT of people talking ALOT of rubbish because "my" P4 beats "my" P3P in every way, on top of that it is a newer far more technical machine that comes with heaps of new features that my P3P will NEVER have.
If you are the type of person that upgrades a phone because it has a better battery and a slightly better camera, which 90% if us are, then you should no doubt be buying a P4 because the P4 comes with that and MUCH more.
My point is buy a P3P by all means, but buy it because you can get a great deal on it and extra accessories, but whatever you do do not troll around the Internet screaming "money ain't a thang, I bought a P3P because it's better than P4 and P4 is rubbish because I read a few people writing about faulty units with no range online ".
I do respect people's opinion on value and right now I bet some great deals can be had on P3P's with extra accessories etc, and as long as you make an educated informed decision on what you will be missing by buying one over a P4 and are willing to compromise, for value, I say go for it, BUT make no mistake you WILL be compromising.
Sorry for the rant, but if I read one more post on how someone's P3* with $600 of mods flys further and for as long as a factory P4 I'm gonna headbutt my overpriced $110 battery :-c.
I will be installing an fpvlr boosted kit on the P4 controller next week, hopefully a battery mod will be around soon there after, then I will make a comparison vid of my modded P4 and my factory P3P, then I will post lots of threads titled "so glad I didn't buy a P3P after the P4 release" etc.
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The obstacle avoidance implementation is definitely flawed. It provides the value you mention during return to home or while flying around with the drone facing straight ahead - and that's why I didn't say it was completely useless. It's flawed because it's only useful in those 2 scenarios and let's face it - those aren't the scenarios in which it's needed most. Most people will set a return to home height that is above all obstacles anyhow - so avoiding them is not normally an issue. Similarly, when flying with the front facing forwards, it's easy to see that you're heading for an obstacle (except for those times when your gimbal is facing straight down). But the Phantoms are designed to be first and foremost camera platforms - and because the OA sensors are only on the front - and because the gimbal is not capable of 360 degree turns - I'll repeat what I actually said in my original post which was "in situations where the drone is flying sideways or backwards, the obstacle avoidance feature is completely useless". The implementation is flawed because it only works in one direction. To fix or complete the OA feature so that it could be called "robust" or "non-flawed", they could have put sensors on all 4 sides - or they could have replaced the gimbal with a 360 degree model and added retracting landing gear. Those aren't revolutionary observations. They're obvious. But for their own reasons, DJI chose not to release a complete feature. Probably because of the extra cost and possibly so they'd have something to offer on the Phantom 5. There are also the reports of the obstacle avoidance sensors not properly sending some objects and crashing - one of which I have seen the video for. So all in all - plenty of justification for labelling it as a flawed or incomplete implementation.
As for your other comments - thanks for sharing your observations. Obviously you're having a much better experience with yours than many others have had. I'm not sure your suggestion of calling them "broken" is appropriate - at least not until DJI agrees to start replacing/repairing them for free!
You say that "a small percentage of people are complaining" - but there is even a SMALLER group of people posting that they are happy!!! And if you look only at the posts from the people who are upgrading from a P3 to a P4 - there are far more who are complaining than there are who are praising the P4. If you're right and there are truly THAT many units out there that are "broken" right from the factory - I wouldn't like my odds of receiving one that works as well as you report!
It seems pretty obvious that there is a wide range of varying performance amongst the P4s. It's awesome that you managed to get one of the good ones - but when the negative reports outnumber the positive ones - I don't think people should necessarily assume that their purchase is going to work out as well as yours did. And with the number of people reporting poor performance - it's not really logical for you to assume that the performance you see from yours is in any way typical.
I think there a lot of emotion in your message. It seems like you have some sort of vested interest in pushing people to the P4 over the P3. You're a bit dismissive of the people posting that they have problems. You admit that you don't care that DJI may have lied. And another thing I don't understand is why you tried to limit your comparison to the out of the box capabilities of each. I think it's definitely more valuable to compare what you can get for an equivalent cash outlay! Since the p3 is several hundred dollars cheaper - people have that extra money to spend on upgrading the features they WANT - instead of being forced to pay for an obstacle avoidance feature that provides no value to their flying style - or paying for the ability to go faster if they never plan to use that feature. They can put the money to some cool camera lenses, an antenna booster that will definitely give them tons more range than the out of the box P4 - extra batteries which will give them more flight time than the out of the box P4 which only comes with one - prop guards that may limit the damage caused by hitting an obstacle that wasn't avoided....
Everybody has different reasons for wanting one of these - and different features that are important to them. For a great many people - the right choice is going to be P3 plus upgrades!!!
You've also exaggerated the differences in your comparison of features - particularly range. Range should be identical between the P3 and P4 since they use the exact same Lightbridge 2 control systems. Even DJI rates them the same in terms of range. There are plenty of reports that the P4 does not go as far as the P3 but there are some that say it does. It obviously varies a ton on interference and location. It's definitely not appropriate to assigns the "win" to the P4 in general - even though I belief that in the test you ran, your P4 went further than your P3 did.
Speed should also be pretty similar - when not in Sport Mode. Sport Mode is one of the new features that seems to work as advertised. That's only a purchasing advantage to someone who wants the extra speed though. If speed is not a feature a person cares about - they shouldn't award the P4 any points for being faster.
Your comment that the P4 is "killing" the P3 in the soft/hardware dept just seems like a fabricated statement. Most of the code base is shared between the 2 platforms. The only difference is the new code that has been added to enable the new features. Your statement is subjective and misleading.
Finally - your statement that tells people they will definitely be compromising if they don't purchase the 4 is also ridiculous and untrue! It is only a compromise if somebody gives up a feature or capability that they wanted in order to save money. If they don't want and aren't going to use the extra features - it's not a compromise - it's smart shopping!!!
Cheers!
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No sir I am not dismissing the people that have problems, I said I feel bad for them and they have been screwed.
Okay let me try to keep my point short and sweet, let's say you do believe me that my P4's range is at least the same as my P3P's then out of the box my P4 has my P3P beat in every aspect bar range because thats facts, power, speed, battery, safety, realiability and better imaging.
On top of this it comes with new features, that however unimportant or irrelevant to you, ARE upgrades and could be SOME peoples sole reason for purchase.
You are completely right about compromise, that's subjective BUT which person flying an fpv quad, wouldn't want one or more of the following.
*Better imaging.
*More features for video recording.
*More safety/redundancy features.
*Stronger/faster flight
As for flight times I cant even been bothered to look at and crunch the numbers but looking quickly at factory specs.
P3P
1280 grams /
4480 mah
=3.5 / 23 minutes
=0.15mah per gram
per minute of flight
P4
1380 grams /
6000 mah
=4.3 / 28 minutes
=0.15mah per gram
per minute of flight
Looks like they are about as efficient as each other.
Okay let me try to keep my point short and sweet, let's say you do believe me that my P4's range is at least the same as my P3P's then out of the box my P4 has my P3P beat in every aspect bar range because thats facts, power, speed, battery, safety, realiability and better imaging.
On top of this it comes with new features, that however unimportant or irrelevant to you, ARE upgrades and could be SOME peoples sole reason for purchase.
You are completely right about compromise, that's subjective BUT which person flying an fpv quad, wouldn't want one or more of the following.
*Better imaging.
*More features for video recording.
*More safety/redundancy features.
*Stronger/faster flight
As for flight times I cant even been bothered to look at and crunch the numbers but looking quickly at factory specs.
P3P
1280 grams /
4480 mah
=3.5 / 23 minutes
=0.15mah per gram
per minute of flight
P4
1380 grams /
6000 mah
=4.3 / 28 minutes
=0.15mah per gram
per minute of flight
Looks like they are about as efficient as each other.
Do you realize how arrogant you sound? My statement is that "for many people, the best choice would be to buy a P3P and upgrade it". You are arguing and essentially saying "The P4 is the best choice for EVERYBODY without exception!"
Your argument is based on capabilities that not everybody wants or needs. There is a $400 price difference between the P3P and the P4.
Purchase a P3P and spend the $400 you saved on:
- $100. Hard Plastic Carrying Case ($75-110)
- $150. Extra battery
- $15. Prop Guards
- $30. Carbon Fibre Props
- $25. Autopilot Software
- $20. Windsurfer Antenna signal booster
- $50. 7 piece camera lens filter set
- $10. Beer
And now compare the 2 units:
- The P3P has twice the flight time (2 batteries)
- The P3P has twice the range (Windsurfer booster)
- Prop guards make the P3P safer in certain types of collisions and landings
- Autopilot software BLOWS AWAY the software that the P4 ships with
- Adding a good set of camera lens filters makes the camera at least on-par with the P4
So now what? The P3 is a clear winner in some of the categories that are so important to you in your previous message. And the P4 has the edge in some others.
When compared to the configuration above - the P4 has the obstruction avoidance feature that you like but that in reality is useless to most of us. It's also got the edge in speed - but if I'm not mistaken, entering Sport Mode disables Object Avoidance - so the 2 features are mutually exclusive.
I don't need or want the additional speed and the object avoidance is useless to me the way it has been implemented.
The P3 is the clear winner in every other category - even Active Track! Active Track, like the Follow Me feature in DJI Go ignores the objects altitude. AutoPilot requires a beacon be given to the subject but they make it easy to turn any iPhone into a beacon and is altitude aware which provides better shots and is also a huge safety feature.
So really - now that you've forced me to sit down and figure out the dollars and cents of everything - the only reason that getting a P4 as opposed to the upgraded P3 would be for the speed. If speed is an important factor to someone - they might want to choose the P4 over the upgraded P3 - however they should realize that by doing so, they will most certainly be compromising all of the other cool features in which the P3 turns out to be VASTLY SUPERIOR!
I'm sorry if this makes you feel like you made the wrong choice but don't worry. You should be able to bring your P4 up to par by spending a couple hundred more dollars.
One other thing that seems arrogant to me about your last post - and your stance - was the fact that you listed out the capabilities and essentially said that the choice was obvious because of your opinion that the P4 was better in each of those categories.... But there are other drones on the market that go faster than the P4, that go further, that stay in the air longer, take better pics, etc.... Based on your logic where money doesn't matter - only capabilities do - why wouldn't "the best choice" for everyone be to buy one of them? Why is it that the "best choice" happens to be the one that you bought? lol By your own logic, it makes no sense.
You just want people to buy what you did because the more that people do that, the more you are able to convince yourself that you made the right choice. But my advice to you is to let it go. It's not the best choice for everybody and that's okay. You still made a good choice - the best choice for you! But not for most of us - at least not until the price comes down.
Happy flying! Happy shopping!
dirkclod
Premium Pilot
Due to technical difficulties the thread was not properly closed.
(loose screw behind the screen)
Since you guys have been keeping the bad behavior at a minimum (thank you, no really, thank you), and making informative post I will leave it open. Wow, I can't believe I just said that!
(loose screw behind the screen)
Since you guys have been keeping the bad behavior at a minimum (thank you, no really, thank you), and making informative post I will leave it open. Wow, I can't believe I just said that!
I agree, 'IF' the p4 gets the same flight distance as the p3 out of the box, it is the better quad of the two.
$ 400 better? Not sure yet. Not until it proves itself as far as shell cracks, battery life, signal distance ect...
So far, most reports are not good. ( except shell cracking )
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1. No I do not know how arrogant I sound.
2. I am not arguing at all, I'm stating facts that a factory P4 is technically superior to a factory P3P.
I do not have an argument with anyone read point "2." above. I totally agree with you that would be money well spent.
1. The P3 wouldn't have 2x the flight time because the flight time between the two quads is not equal per battery.
2. Windsurfer booster 2x the range, so are you saying my P3P is going 32k ft with a windsurfer?
3. Good call on the prop guards, a must for all amatuers!
4. Autopilot Software also BLOWS AWAY your warranty when a fault/accident occurs using it.
5. Lens filters DO NOT improve a cameras "optics".
Everything you named can be added to the P4, the P4 can have everything the P3P has but the P3P cannot have everything the P4 has, it is a technically superior machine. As for autopilot and IPhone gps beacons, you are gonna need them prop guards you brought when your hovering near a tree and autopilot gets a faulty gps tag from your IPhone, sad times. How sure are you active track is not altitude aware and what exactly do you mean? The quad is not aware of its alt whilst active tracking or it will not track something changing altitude? I will test tomorrow, anyhow sounds easily patched with an update.
Sorry I think I missed something what cool features are you talking about, or do you mean the paid for mods that you can also put on the P4?
Again I seem to have missed part of our conversation, was this topic not about phantoms, particularly P3P and P4? I haven't once said P4 would be the best choice for everyone or even anyone I said it's a more technical machine from the factory compared to a P3P from the factory. What is ironic is that it seems like you are the one who regrets his choice, you are defending your machine against something else that is technically better, it has everything of previous + more, it is by definition more technically advanced. It would be impossible on the other hand for me to regret my choice since I didn't make a choice, I own both machines.
Moot point, read above.
I totally agree it's not the best choice for everybody and have done since we started our discussion, I also agree with you that purchasing the new P4 was a good choice for me as it is all my P3P ( which I love by the way) is, + more. All jokes aside I agree with you P3P plus upgrades is better value and right now makes sense for a lot of people, but my whole point the whole time was that P4 beats P3* out the box, a P3P with upgrades doesn't make P3P's on par with P4's it makes P3P's with upgrades on par with P4's and even then that's subjective and not my opinion. A factory P3P is a very good quad, a P3P with upgrades is an exceptional quad, a P4 working correctly, as many many people's do, is an exceptional quad, a P4 with upgrades = the future. Sorry if you feel I was saying P4 is the best and only choice for everyone but I didn't say anything like that, I agree with you a P3P with $400 worth of upgrades is not lacking anything, but a P4 with $400 worth of upgrades is still a better machine so I guess it comes down to are all the new features, potential features and hardware upgrades on the P4 worth $400 dollars, I. E. Is $1700 worth of P4, a better choice than $1300 worth of P3P, I wouldn't and couldn't speak for anyone else, but one things for sure it would make a better machine.
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