Self policing and better get insurance

[Flyer91]

AMA only covers you when flying at a sanctioned field.

100% incorrect.
AMA only covers you if you fly within their guidelines ...... wherever you fly.

If you read the information at the links I posted it'll bring you up to speed on what's what.

Also .... AMA does not sanction fields, but they do sanction events, which may be the cause the confusion.

 

[SilentAV8R]

This is off the current AMA homepage

 

[DrJoe]

Well.. 4 out of 5 of your links are broken...

That said, I've gotten bashed for promoting safe flying. The problem seems to be what I define as safe may be different from what others define as safe. An organization like AMA does a good job defining what "safe" is. The FAA may defer to an organization like AMA in its rule making future.

I feel there are 3 main areas of concern for Phantom pilots and civilians:
Safety for others in the air.
Safety for others on the ground
Privacy issues.

Air Safety
The overriding rule for aviation flown under visual conditions is "see and avoid". Even with great FPV, if you can't see your bird, than you can't see what is around you to avoid it. An mid-air collision with a helicopter or small aircraft has the potential to be fatal and catastrophic. Use a spotter at the very least to maintain line-of sight (LOS), because FPV is just too cool to give up. Very soon, a small Mode-S ADS-B transponder will help all airborne craft avoid one another. Until then, LOS is a must at an altitude below 500 feet (preferably 400).

This company is developing a tiny transponder that can send your bird's info and receive info from other aircraft.
https://www.sagetechcorp.com/unmanned-solutions/

These researchers have developed a way for "drones" to communicate with one another and mimic "flock" behavior, with the ability to "see and avoid" each other. Perhaps using Sagetech's tech to communicate position (?):
http://www.nature.com/news/autonomous-d ... ds-1.14776
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleD ... er=6095129

Ground Safety
The NAZA flight controller does not yet provide redundant safety in a quad-rotor. If you lose a motor or ESC, it falls. Hence, multi-rotors without the ability to safely land after an motor or esc failure should avoid densely populated areas. Also, without redundant NAZA controllers and GPS units, there is no redundant control safety. A simple electrical failure/loose wire can cause your bird to plummet out of the sky on anything below it. Having good insurance can't hurt, but flying over low density areas is a better precaution.
There is already autopilot algorithms to deal with the loss of a prop/motor/esc. With the amount of money DJI is taking in lately, perhaps they should include this tech. Check this out:
http://robohub.org/quadrocopter-failsaf ... ller-loss/

Privacy
Having a multi-rotor with a camera hovering over my backyard is something I am not comfortable with. As my learning curve has evolved, I now try to stay over 150-200 feet in residential neighborhoods in slow flight/hover, maybe even lower if I'm just zooming by front yards along a street. The "swarm of bees" noise is pretty noticeable overhead. Just keep moving, and stay away from low hovers over backyards whenever possible to keep your neighbors happy.

Before I get flamed, please remember these are just my current safety thoughts and opinions, subject to change until the FAA acts. I won't decry whooping it up while the west is still wild, but the sheriff is coming... be safe, however you define it. You will be held responsible and vilified by the media if something goes tragically wrong. All of us will be, to some degree.

I personally believe drones will be as ubiquitous as cars became after the turn of the century, with the air filled with Jetson's like craft that will deliver our pizzas, patrol our neighborhoods, and run our errands while communicating with each other and avoiding other aircraft autonomously. The technology is growing in leaps and bounds. Heck, even DJI flight control systems like the A2 are a remarkable leap forward in reliability and precision from the NAZA. That A2 system can run over $3,000 now, but in a few years it will trickle down to us.

 

[Flyer91]

Well.. 4 out of 5 of your links are broken...

T.

Yeah ... the story on those sites evidently made way for newer stories. :?:

But here's a link that we might all want to keep a close eye on over the next few months, as it tells what's afoot WRT what might paint a picture of just how easy it will be (or not) to 'legally' fly these in the near future ....

https://www.google.com/search?es_sm=93& ... xc1B_y2d8M

 

[Dirty Bird]

Eric Schmidt is a left wing pin-head. This is the moron who sends Google Streetview cars all over the country grabbing Streetview images of OUR houses, then having Google remove the Streetview images of HIS residence! How poetic....

Sounds a lot like anti-gun politicians, who want to take away YOUR right to own a gun, while taxpayers foot the bill for protecting THEM with gun-wielding security.

We should ban Phantom's because a terrorist "might" strap an M-80 onto one? Perhaps we should ban the private use of cars because a terrorist might load one up with explosives...

Update: I notice the Guardian very quickly shut down the comments on Mr. Schmidt's article, with most agreeing with the hubris & irony of this socialist scumbag's thoughts.

 

[DrJoe]

+1 dirtybird

 

[panhygrous pantler]

Not sure what you know about it, but from my years of being around the AMA I have found the AMA insurance to be an effective tool at limiting your liability in the event of an accident.

How many times have you burned through your liability coverage and used the AMA insurance?

Yes, it is secondary to other insurance, if you have any. Otherwise it is primary. But before getting complacent about your homeowners ask your agent if you are covered for flying a "drone" or model aircraft. If the answer is yes, ask about the limits. Many times even if you are covered the limits are very low.

Been there, done that. Covered under my umbrella policy to $3M.

Much ado about a relatively low risk hobby.

Cue the "what if" doomsayers...

 

[BobUnplugged]

Don't take up golf, because you could knock a ball into the parking lot and hit a car. Don't play baseball, because you could knock a line drive right into the stands. Don't fly a kite because it could easily slam to the ground at any time. Don't drive your car until after midnight, so most children should be in bed and safe by then.

And have fun!

 

[SilentAV8R]

Not sure what you know about it, but from my years of being around the AMA I have found the AMA insurance to be an effective tool at limiting your liability in the event of an accident.

How many times have you burned through your liability coverage and used the AMA insurance?

Yes, it is secondary to other insurance, if you have any. Otherwise it is primary. But before getting complacent about your homeowners ask your agent if you are covered for flying a "drone" or model aircraft. If the answer is yes, ask about the limits. Many times even if you are covered the limits are very low.

Been there, done that. Covered under my umbrella policy to $3M.

Much ado about a relatively low risk hobby.

Cue the "what if" doomsayers...

I've never needed my spare tire either, so I guess I should take it out, right??

Do what you want to do, but don't make statements that are merely your opinion and try to pass them off as facts.

 

[SilentAV8R]

Don't take up golf, because you could knock a ball into the parking lot and hit a car.

True enough. Or hit a window in a house on the course. Guess what, if they can prove it was your ball you get to pay for it. Ask me how I know.

 

[panhygrous pantler]

...and right on cue, one of said doomsayers:

I've never needed my spare tire either, so I guess I should take it out, right??

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Do what you want to do,

Gee, thanks so much for your permission bub.

but don't make statements that are merely your opinion and try to pass them off as facts.

They certainly are facts for the vast majority of adults who join the AMA (just look at some chapter photos, the AMA website, in the mirror, etc. if you doubt me)

p.s. Why can't you answer the simple question that I posed? Here it is again:

How many times have you burned through your liability coverage and used the AMA insurance?

 

[SilentAV8R]

Since I have never filed a liability claim on my HO, the answer is never. So is it your position that since this has never happened that it cannot therefore ever happen? Hence my spare tire remark.

How many times have you used your spare tire?

Never.

Then why do you have one??

As far as doomsayer, I have to tell you to go pound sand. To you a doomsayer is a person who recognizes risks and who understands that there are irresponsible morons out there who feel that their right to do something trumps any responsibility to the greater RC community. So if their/your "fun" causes the rest of us to be screwed by too many rules and restrictions, well too **** bad, right??

 

[panhygrous pantler]

Since I have never filed a liability claim on my HO, the answer is never. So is it your position that since this has never happened that it cannot therefore ever happen? Hence my spare tire remark.

Nope. I asked the question because you made this claim:

"my years of being around the AMA I have found the AMA insurance to be an effective tool at limiting your liability in the event of an accident."

You've found it to be an effective tool yet you've never used your HO let alone the AMA policy? How are you determining that it's an "effective tool"?

How many times have you used your spare tire?

Never.

Then why do you have one??

Horrible analogy.

To you a doomsayer is a person who recognizes risks and who understands that there are irresponsible morons out there who feel that their right to do something trumps any responsibility to the greater RC community.

Nope. Way off the mark.

I recognize the risks, understand that there are always going to be outliers (in any activity) that don't recognize the risks or at the very least ignore them.

That's quite different than the doomsayers (who get hyperbolic about the risks and are at the other end of the spectrum compared to the outliers above) who prattle on about how risky things are, how we're going to get shut down, what if a Phantom covered in napalm plummets out of the sky into a toddler yoga class and takes out the Thompson triplets, etc.

So if their/your "fun" causes the rest of us to be screwed by too many rules and restrictions, well too **** bad, right??

Nope. But that more of your doomsaying right there.

 

[SilentAV8R]

I have personal knowledge of several claims, including one where I was an expert witness in a model aircraft liability case. I have been directly involved with people who filed claims and was witness to the claims process. So while I personally have never needed to file a claim, I have personally witnessed how other people have been helped.

I'm pretty much done with you. It's clear that you are now arguing for the sole reason of sustaining the argument for what I can only think is your own amusement.

 

[panhygrous pantler]

If you can be believed, a few experiences with some rare claims make you believe that the supplemental AMA insurance is an "effective tool at limiting your liability." Perhaps in those isolated cases but for the vast amjority of people? I think not.

I'm pretty much done with you. It's clear that you are now arguing for the sole reason of sustaining the argument for what I can only think is your own amusement.

No problem. If you're going to scurry away then just do it. Surely there is another thread out there where you can try to beat the AMA drum again, and again, and again.

 

[powertowerpro]

Well for what its worth as a new pilot I have signed up for an AMA membership. Two reasons drove my decisions. Influencing FAA regulations and the Insurance Policy. It may also be a really cool community to be apart of. $48 is fairly cheap, for even a little added peace of mind.

 

[Flyer91]

Well guys, its apparent that I that didn't explain my position well enough and as a consequence ....... deservedly, I've basically crashed and burned.

I've decided to send my Plus back for now, and see how the next few months shake out for both new legislation/restrictions and technology.
IMHO: It's totally possible that we could have a type of crash avoidance built in, and laws/restrictions that I could live with (and I kind'a would like to see a bit better camera, as well as the tilt lever back).

I am a bit concerned (but not overly so) that the practice of flying over people .... especially kids, will get as a reputation that will be an embarrassment .... and one that 'I' wouldn't want to be a associated with, but I suspect (and hope) that sooner than that happening the administrators for places like soccer fields and such, will 'quietly' ban them (under the advice of their legal council's concerns of liability exposure) before any legislation takes place (like Yosemite just recently did ... albeit for noise, not safety) and/or anybody's kid gets hurt.

I suspect that will be followed by bannings (also quietly accomplished overnight) at municipal beaches, lakes, private and then public parks and entire cites, also as advised by their legal counsel due to concerns over liability, like many munis did to "Park Flyers".
Actually all of this has already started,and the reasons cited in most cases that I've read about are flying over people, homes and vehicles/vessels .... I.e.. Texas, California beach munis that have celebrities in them, the guy that got arrested in N.Y., and I believe Denver (or possibly some other city in Co.(???) has baned them... etc.
Then will come the legislation on significantly higher/larger levels (state and federal).

Hopefully when it all shakes out it all won't be too restrictive, and/or with the steep technology curve we are in there will be ways to mitigate any super-restrictive laws before they get enacted .... assuming we even actually do end up there.
My gut is that the next few months should tell if this is ... or is not going to happen, and if so, to what level.

Sorry AMA haters, but the AMA 'is' a large political lobby and the loudest voice for our concerns.
But you cant voice 'your' concerns unless you are part of it and have a vote on how it tosses it's weight in any political arena.
The membership is $58/yr. (and at times they have a 25% discount for new members) and the insurance is better to have than not ..... plus you get a truly good Radio Control magazine each month ....... and a semi-cool sticker!

It any case ... sorry if I peed in your oatmeal, none of you guys are the enemy.
It was not my intentions to try and restrict you at all, but instead to not get us restricted.
I now see that self policing discussions won't work due to it being such a hot topic, the impersonal nature of the internet, and just plain human nature to get pissed when our ideas are not perceived as being respected.

Now for the 'real' reason for my post .......I'll have some new and uncharged smart batteries, a charger, modified new version Tx with iPad mini (Verizon) and custom ipad mini holder, as well as other P2 items for sale in the classifieds over the next few days so if interested please take a peek there.

Once things shake out, and if it's still reasonably free/doable to fly these things .... as the "flying camera" that they are designed for .... I'll most assuredly be back.

Enjoy!