houseboat roof takeoff-landing US National Park...?

[ribjig]

Takeoff-landings inside US national park boundaries are prohibited
Guessing it don't matter if its from roof of 2-story houseboat on
lake within US national park? Or is it a loophole because me+drone
not touching ground? ???
(but then standing on picnic bench certainly isn't loophole...)

Related: if one takes off & lands at park border can one then
legally fly OVER national park or must one envision border
as invisible wall reach up to 400 ft? ???
(assume no disturbance of wildlife)

hobbyist license, P4P+, taking still photos
thanks in advance!

 

[PhantomPilotUK]

If within the boundary of the park I am pretty sure the rule still applies regardless of whether you are on the water or not.

 

[ribjig]

do hobbyist ever get one-time permission by simply asking head ranger?
or by any means?

 

[PhantomPilotUK]

Cant do any harm to ask I guess.

 

[dirkclod]

Here a Lake is one thing but if it's a river running through that's different .
Like you can't fish on someones property if the lake is on them with out permission but running water you can boat on through as long as you don't get on their land .
Don't have a clue if that would matter in what you ask but just throwing it out there .

 

[dronesky]

Launch from top of your car or boat it is still prohibited

 

[Meta4]

Guessing it don't matter if its from roof of 2-story houseboat on
lake within US national park?

If the roof is made of steel or has steel frames, you could find yourself in more trouble than you want to deal with.

 

[dirkclod]

Could is a big word as you know I use the bed of my 90 pickup truck which is all steel to take of from .
If all shows ok in the app it does not cause no issues .Have used it with all my Phantoms and both Mavics .
Sure it can in some situations but not all .I would not tempt it if I hadn't been flying as long as I have but
it is not an issue in all cases .Untill you try it and see what your app says you don't know .
I trust my app and it has never failed me . If it showed an error I wouldn't do it .

 

[Fanatic]

I would say the concept of "airspace" (400'+ high walls) applies to NPS properties. I know for certain that not even aircraft (other than rescue choppers) can overfly the Grand Canyon NP anymore, though there are places outside the park boundaries that have helicopter tours.

Other parks may have different rules, and it never hurts to ask permission. Pretty much any property manager, NPS or otherwise, can waive the rules if they can be convinced it won't cause harm and/or will be beneficial in some way.

 

[sar104]

I would say the concept of "airspace" (400'+ high walls) applies to NPS properties. I know for certain that not even aircraft (other than rescue choppers) can overfly the Grand Canyon NP anymore, though there are places outside the park boundaries that have helicopter tours.

Other parks may have different rules, and it never hurts to ask permission. Pretty much any property manager, NPS or otherwise, can waive the rules if they can be convinced it won't cause harm and/or will be beneficial in some way.

GCNP is not a good example because it is covered by several FAA flight free zones. That's quite different from the NPS ban on sUAS operations from within park boundaries.

 

[skiptv]

You can not take off or land within the boundaries of a National Park You can not fly into or over a National Park. The FAA which controls airspace has designated them as NFZ "No Fly Zones" just like Disney Land/World The Parks did not designate this the FAA did. Geez take a drone class at a college that teaches the Part 107 or take ground school course for pilots at an airport.

 

[sar104]

You can not take off or land within the boundaries of a National Park You can not fly into or over a National Park. The FAA which controls airspace has designated them as NFZ "No Fly Zones" just like Disney Land/World The Parks did not designate this the FAA did. Geez take a drone class at a college that teaches the Part 107 or take ground school course for pilots at an airport.

That's an inaccurate reply, or at least misleading. Except for GCNP the FAA has not restricted airspace over National Parks - the only restrictions are NPS bans on sUAS operation (takeoff and landing).

 

[FliteDoc]

No problem taking off outside National Parks, flying over, and then landing outside... Have done several times, once even w. local sheriff stopping to say hi!!

 

[ribjig]

No problem taking off outside National Parks, flying over, and then landing outside

"Flying over" NOT permitted according to others
commenting in this thread. So who's right??

 

[sar104]

"Flying over" NOT permitted according to others
commenting in this thread. So who's right??

It's best just to read the applicable laws. Other than exceptions such as Grand Canyon National Park, the FAA doesn't have any airspace restrictions over National Parks. And since the FAA alone controls the airspace, that means that flying over a National Park is not prohibited. The NPS, however, does have jurisdiction on the ground, and so it can, and has, imposed a ban on taking off or landing from park property.

 

[Avocet]

do hobbyist ever get one-time permission by simply asking head ranger?
or by any means?

I don't believe NP rangers have the authority to change federal rulings - NP statues - however much they may in fact think so.

 

[sar104]

I don't believe NP rangers have the authority to change federal rulings - NP statues - however much they may in fact think so.

The park superintendents have that authority. From the NPS Policy Memorandum 14-05 that implemented these rules:

Launching, landing, or operating an unmanned aircraft from or on lands and waters administered by the National Park Service within the boundaries of [insert name of park] is prohibited except as approved in writing by the superintendent.​

 

[BigAl07]

do hobbyist ever get one-time permission by simply asking head ranger?
or by any means?

I don't know about any hobbyists who have but I'd be willing to bet that somewhere across this nation a local NPS Manager/Ranger has a good friend (or co-worker) who has a drone and has given permission for a hobbyist to fly in his/her area. I don't recall reading anything stating this but I'd say it's happened somewhere at some time in the last couple of years.

With that being said, I know for a fact that in some Commercial Instances credentialed operators have been allowed to fly from NPS land. Search & Rescue is one of those instances.

Below is a picture I snapped from NPS land a year or two ago:

I don't believe NP rangers have the authority to change federal rulings - NP statues - however much they may in fact think so.

A NPS Superintendent that is over the area in question CAN give authorization for a specific area. We have had to go this route several times over the last 5 years to get authorization to fly from NPS land (We have a lot here where I live). But it's several hoops and we have to have the right credentials on hand to do this. It's a case by case situation and we have been denied more than a couple of times.

Here's a link that might answer some of the questions about this:
Unmanned Aircraft in the National Parks (U.S. National Park Service)

I would like to fly my small unmanned aircraft in a park for recreation. Are there any options available?
Check the park website to see if it is an allowed activity at the park. If not, check with the park superintendent to see if an area can be designated within the park, and/or a special use permit can be obtained.

 

[tcope]

A NPS Superintendent that is over the area in question CAN give authorization for a specific area. We have had to go this route several times over the last 5 years to get authorization to fly from NPS land (We have a lot here where I live). But it's several hoops and we have to have the right credentials on hand to do this. It's a case by case situation and we have been denied more than a couple of times.

While I don't doubt that this happened, according to the memorandum issued, approval is given as follows:

One of those exceptions, listed in paragraph 1(d) of the Policy Memorandum (see Conditions and Exceptions), allows for activities under a special use permit (SUP) that specifically authorizes launching, landing, or operating an unmanned aircraft and that is approved in writing by the Associate Director, Visitor and Resource Protection (ADVRP).

So the information can be given by the superintendent of the park but it must be obtained from the ADVRP directly.

So the superintendent themselves cannot give permission, they can only convey the permission given by the ADVRP. At least according to their own memorandum.

To:

 

[bsartist]

Takeoff-landings inside US national park boundaries are prohibited
Guessing it don't matter if its from roof of 2-story houseboat on
lake within US national park? Or is it a loophole because me+drone
not touching ground? ???
(but then standing on picnic bench certainly isn't loophole...)

Related: if one takes off & lands at park border can one then
legally fly OVER national park or must one envision border
as invisible wall reach up to 400 ft? ???
(assume no disturbance of wildlife)

hobbyist license, P4P+, taking still photos
thanks in advance!

If you know how to hand launch, try jumping up and then let the drone takeoff from your hand while your feet are still off the ground.