Heart stopper in Maui.......

[Phantom NSX]

almost lost her to the sea today....

Anyways here's what happened. Took off from my resort where I have flown already a couple times with no issues, headed straight out over the water at about 500 feet out and 200 feet high I stopped and wanted to do a yaw type shoot up the coastline as the sun was setting, as soon as I started heading south I heard "atti mode" "atti mode" and checked my remote and saw I was in P mode that's when my heart started racing.... She kept saying "atti mode" and my screen was saying "no gps" as the wind started taking her over to the island of Lanai...I'm starting to freak out inside as a crowd is watching so in trying to act cool, but I thought for sure she was gone as I tried to regain control... I didn't panic and I just kept trying to get her back and as I was trying to point her in the right direction and get her back she seem to be climbing and heading further out to sea....finally the screen went to the green and I had better control...quickly reeled her in and put her away for the night. Quite the heart stopper.

For some reason it lost all satellites for a few very scary moments.


Other then that, it's been a blast getting some amazing footage of one of the most beautiful places on earth!!!

 

[Deleted member 62848]

almost lost her to the sea today....

Anyways here's what happened. Took off from my resort where I have flown already a couple times with no issues, headed straight out over the water at about 500 feet out and 200 feet high I stopped and wanted to do a yaw type shoot up the coastline as the sun was setting, as soon as I started heading south I heard "atti mode" "atti mode" and checked my remote and saw I was in P mode that's when my heart started racing.... She kept saying "atti mode" and my screen was saying "no gps" as the wind started taking her over the to the island of Lanai...I'm starting to freak out inside as a crowd is watching so in trying to act cool, but I thought for sure she was gone as I tried to regain control... I didn't panic and I just kept trying to get her back and as I was trying to point her in the right direction and get her back she seem to be climbing and heading further out to sea....finally the screen went to the green and I had better control...quickly reeled her in and put her away for the night. Quite the heart stopper.

For some reason it lost all satellites for a few very scary moments.


Other then that, it's been a blast getting some amazing footage of one of the most beautiful places on earth!!!

Wow good read and a lucky one

 

[solentlife]

Good for you that you got it back.

I will relate something that many people do not realise - but please it is unlikely that your 'event' was due to this.

One of the reasons there are now 4 Satelite systems with more coming on line / planned is that the Military in USA (USAAF) control the US GPS system. They maintain a dual system ... the 'public' system we use for cars, boats, etc. and the restricted access parallel system purely for NATO use. GLONASS is the Russian system and it gets 'altered' depending on theatre of operations at that time. Galileo being the European system that is designed to reduce dependence on US GPS system. India is in the act of commissioning as well as China.

GPS is a generic term and has wrongly been assigned to USA based system. It actually means : Global Positioning System. It replaced the TRANSIT system ... glad that one left the stage !!

Why ? USA GPS is subject to switching on / off and the worst which you will not know of at the time it occurs - Offsetting of Sat positional info to make results unusable. Yes - true.

Presidential Decree some years back switched of SA. Selective Availability. SA was part of the original 'public' GPS system, where intentional errors were put into the sat data randomly to prevent the 'public' system from becoming a precision weapon. It was typical misguided Political 'wisdom'. The UK / USA commercial companies along with others developed Rcvrs that not only received Sat data but also correctional data from earth stations to reverse as far as possible SA. US Govt after some years of running SA then switched it off. GPS signals were then left intact.
But the damage was done. No-one wanted to rely on USA GPS anymore and Europe started developing its own system, while Russia had not been far behind USA in launching its own. But Russia ran into various financial matters and of course the launching of sats .. so their coverage was not total. (In fact NO GPS system has total coverage of the Globe ... ).

OK we can move on ... as Galileo gets launched - USA puts pressure on EU to have Galileo fall into line with USA GPS that if requested it will be switched off same as USA GPS. At this time - there is a general agreement on this. You can now see that various interests around the world are not too happy about this and given that the technology is widely known - leads to other systems.

OK ... but one thing remains and is back to my start lines ...

USA GPS does get switched off or manipulated at times globally or just specific geographical areas depending on Military operations / exercises at the time and leading up to. So it is not unknown for yachts etc. to find positional data from GPS going crazy ! We will leave out Car Nav as that uses 'Jump to Road' to keep icon travelling along the road unless you accept Off-Road ...

Summary :

USA GPS is liable to error or switch off depending on military at that time and location.
GLONASS is liable to 're-focus' depending on where Russian activity is prevalent.
Galileo is way behind schedule and suffers constant arguments between partners ... basically because of the French !!
India / China are launching and getting it commissioned.

I apologise for digressing from guys post ... but felt it might have some relevance as so many people are shocked when GPS stops working ...

Nigel

 

[Cuckaburra]

almost lost her to the sea today....

Anyways here's what happened. Took off from my resort where I have flown already a couple times with no issues, headed straight out over the water at about 500 feet out and 200 feet high I stopped and wanted to do a yaw type shoot up the coastline as the sun was setting, as soon as I started heading south I heard "atti mode" "atti mode" and checked my remote and saw I was in P mode that's when my heart started racing.... She kept saying "atti mode" and my screen was saying "no gps" as the wind started taking her over the to the island of Lanai...I'm starting to freak out inside as a crowd is watching so in trying to act cool, but I thought for sure she was gone as I tried to regain control... I didn't panic and I just kept trying to get her back and as I was trying to point her in the right direction and get her back she seem to be climbing and heading further out to sea....finally the screen went to the green and I had better control...quickly reeled her in and put her away for the night. Quite the heart stopper.

For some reason it lost all satellites for a few very scary moments.


Other then that, it's been a blast getting some amazing footage of one of the most beautiful places on earth!!!

in that situation what would happen if you had hit return to home?

 

[solentlife]

in that situation what would happen if you had hit return to home?

Unlikely she would return to home as it needs GPS to come home.

Nigel

 

[Cuckaburra]

Unlikely she would return to home as it needs GPS to come home.

Nigel

Yea i knew that.so pressing the button results in nothing happening.

 

[solentlife]

Yea i knew that.so pressing the button results in nothing happening.

Not sure really .... I would hope it would hover on the spot ... but who knows . I am not going to test !!

Just a comment - not all ATTI means no GPS ..... but if there is warning saying no GPS - that's a different matter.

Nigel

 

[Cuckaburra]

Not sure really .... I would hope it would hover on the spot ... but who knows . I am not going to test !!

Just a comment - not all ATTI means no GPS ..... but if there is warning saying no GPS - that's a different matter.

Nigel

Lol yea I've had my p3a nearly 2 years and its never been in atti mode.i must try it sometime.

 

[solentlife]

I have no fear of ATTI ... but then again I was flying Multi Rotors without GPS for years ........ which I think is a good foundation that many Phantom flyers ought to learn.

The WLtoys quads like the WL959 etc. - are not the toys people think - they take skill to fly well. A skill that stands well when the P3 starts to act up.

Nigel

 

[Phantom NSX]

Good for you that you got it back.

I will relate something that many people do not realise - but please it is unlikely that your 'event' was due to this.

One of the reasons there are now 4 Satelite systems with more coming on line / planned is that the Military in USA (USAAF) control the US GPS system. They maintain a dual system ... the 'public' system we use for cars, boats, etc. and the restricted access parallel system purely for NATO use. GLONASS is the Russian system and it gets 'altered' depending on theatre of operations at that time. Galileo being the European system that is designed to reduce dependence on US GPS system. India is in the act of commissioning as well as China.

GPS is a generic term and has wrongly been assigned to USA based system. It actually means : Global Positioning System. It replaced the TRANSIT system ... glad that one left the stage !!

Why ? USA GPS is subject to switching on / off and the worst which you will not know of at the time it occurs - Offsetting of Sat positional info to make results unusable. Yes - true.

Presidential Decree some years back switched of SA. Selective Availability. SA was part of the original 'public' GPS system, where intentional errors were put into the sat data randomly to prevent the 'public' system from becoming a precision weapon. It was typical misguided Political 'wisdom'. The UK / USA commercial companies along with others developed Rcvrs that not only received Sat data but also correctional data from earth stations to reverse as far as possible SA. US Govt after some years of running SA then switched it off. GPS signals were then left intact.
But the damage was done. No-one wanted to rely on USA GPS anymore and Europe started developing its own system, while Russia had not been far behind USA in launching its own. But Russia ran into various financial matters and of course the launching of sats .. so their coverage was not total. (In fact NO GPS system has total coverage of the Globe ... ).

OK we can move on ... as Galileo gets launched - USA puts pressure on EU to have Galileo fall into line with USA GPS that if requested it will be switched off same as USA GPS. At this time - there is a general agreement on this. You can now see that various interests around the world are not too happy about this and given that the technology is widely known - leads to other systems.

OK ... but one thing remains and is back to my start lines ...

USA GPS does get switched off or manipulated at times globally or just specific geographical areas depending on Military operations / exercises at the time and leading up to. So it is not unknown for yachts etc. to find positional data from GPS going crazy ! We will leave out Car Nav as that uses 'Jump to Road' to keep icon travelling along the road unless you accept Off-Road ...

Summary :

USA GPS is liable to error or switch off depending on military at that time and location.
GLONASS is liable to 're-focus' depending on where Russian activity is prevalent.
Galileo is way behind schedule and suffers constant arguments between partners ... basically because of the French !!
India / China are launching and getting it commissioned.

I apologise for digressing from guys post ... but felt it might have some relevance as so many people are shocked when GPS stops working ...

Nigel

Thanks!!!

That's some interesting stuff....sounds like what might have happened...I went from 6 satellites to zero. Glad I fought hard and got her back Spooked the crap out of me though.

 

[livefreeanddrone]

Good for you that you got it back.

I will relate something that many people do not realise - but please it is unlikely that your 'event' was due to this.

One of the reasons there are now 4 Satelite systems with more coming on line / planned is that the Military in USA (USAAF) control the US GPS system. They maintain a dual system ... the 'public' system we use for cars, boats, etc. and the restricted access parallel system purely for NATO use. GLONASS is the Russian system and it gets 'altered' depending on theatre of operations at that time. Galileo being the European system that is designed to reduce dependence on US GPS system. India is in the act of commissioning as well as China.

GPS is a generic term and has wrongly been assigned to USA based system. It actually means : Global Positioning System. It replaced the TRANSIT system ... glad that one left the stage !!

Why ? USA GPS is subject to switching on / off and the worst which you will not know of at the time it occurs - Offsetting of Sat positional info to make results unusable. Yes - true.

Presidential Decree some years back switched of SA. Selective Availability. SA was part of the original 'public' GPS system, where intentional errors were put into the sat data randomly to prevent the 'public' system from becoming a precision weapon. It was typical misguided Political 'wisdom'. The UK / USA commercial companies along with others developed Rcvrs that not only received Sat data but also correctional data from earth stations to reverse as far as possible SA. US Govt after some years of running SA then switched it off. GPS signals were then left intact.
But the damage was done. No-one wanted to rely on USA GPS anymore and Europe started developing its own system, while Russia had not been far behind USA in launching its own. But Russia ran into various financial matters and of course the launching of sats .. so their coverage was not total. (In fact NO GPS system has total coverage of the Globe ... ).

OK we can move on ... as Galileo gets launched - USA puts pressure on EU to have Galileo fall into line with USA GPS that if requested it will be switched off same as USA GPS. At this time - there is a general agreement on this. You can now see that various interests around the world are not too happy about this and given that the technology is widely known - leads to other systems.

OK ... but one thing remains and is back to my start lines ...

USA GPS does get switched off or manipulated at times globally or just specific geographical areas depending on Military operations / exercises at the time and leading up to. So it is not unknown for yachts etc. to find positional data from GPS going crazy ! We will leave out Car Nav as that uses 'Jump to Road' to keep icon travelling along the road unless you accept Off-Road ...

Summary :

USA GPS is liable to error or switch off depending on military at that time and location.
GLONASS is liable to 're-focus' depending on where Russian activity is prevalent.
Galileo is way behind schedule and suffers constant arguments between partners ... basically because of the French !!
India / China are launching and getting it commissioned.

I apologise for digressing from guys post ... but felt it might have some relevance as so many people are shocked when GPS stops working ...

Nigel

Thanks for that explanation. Very interesting indeed. I had no idea that was going on.

 

[rexster314]

Videos, we want videos!!

 

[Phantom NSX]

Videos, we want videos!!

Hope this works.... here are some quick vids using the DJI app. Obviously the 4K versions are much more amazing!!!! I will put together one soon for YouTube.

Kapalua Bay- Maui

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[rexster314]

Cool, haven't been back to Maui since 2012. Spent 2 months there during whale season

 

[THEHOFF]

Lost mine in Puerto Rico for about 20 min kinda same. Went one way heading to a piece of island. Lost contact and waited for it to return. Some how it started to and then didn't see it at all fly past me about 300 yards. It hovered over there for that 15-20 min. After it still showed lost contact like right on shoreline where it originally took off I packed up remote and was ready to start walking up the coast like to see if it had landed on land or if anyone saw it. At that moment I saw it returning from behind me. Pulled remote back out landed asap and took deep breath. Later watched video and don't know how or why it went about 300-500 yards behind me.

almost lost her to the sea today....

Anyways here's what happened. Took off from my resort where I have flown already a couple times with no issues, headed straight out over the water at about 500 feet out and 200 feet high I stopped and wanted to do a yaw type shoot up the coastline as the sun was setting, as soon as I started heading south I heard "atti mode" "atti mode" and checked my remote and saw I was in P mode that's when my heart started racing.... She kept saying "atti mode" and my screen was saying "no gps" as the wind started taking her over to the island of Lanai...I'm starting to freak out inside as a crowd is watching so in trying to act cool, but I thought for sure she was gone as I tried to regain control... I didn't panic and I just kept trying to get her back and as I was trying to point her in the right direction and get her back she seem to be climbing and heading further out to sea....finally the screen went to the green and I had better control...quickly reeled her in and put her away for the night. Quite the heart stopper.

For some reason it lost all satellites for a few very scary moments.


Other then that, it's been a blast getting some amazing footage of one of the most beautiful places on earth!!!

 

[0v3rrid3]

Reason why all pilots should learn flying in attitude mode, flying in just GPS mode and not be familiar with atti mode is almost like real pilot only knows how to fly plane only with autopilot. When you lost GPS signal, not only that your drone won't hover in place and will drift away you also can't use rth and must be able to fly drone manually back.

 

[Paul Sw]

Good for you that you got it back.

I will relate something that many people do not realise - but please it is unlikely that your 'event' was due to this.

One of the reasons there are now 4 Satelite systems with more coming on line / planned is that the Military in USA (USAAF) control the US GPS system. They maintain a dual system ... the 'public' system we use for cars, boats, etc. and the restricted access parallel system purely for NATO use. GLONASS is the Russian system and it gets 'altered' depending on theatre of operations at that time. Galileo being the European system that is designed to reduce dependence on US GPS system. India is in the act of commissioning as well as China.

GPS is a generic term and has wrongly been assigned to USA based system. It actually means : Global Positioning System. It replaced the TRANSIT system ... glad that one left the stage !!

Why ? USA GPS is subject to switching on / off and the worst which you will not know of at the time it occurs - Offsetting of Sat positional info to make results unusable. Yes - true.

Presidential Decree some years back switched of SA. Selective Availability. SA was part of the original 'public' GPS system, where intentional errors were put into the sat data randomly to prevent the 'public' system from becoming a precision weapon. It was typical misguided Political 'wisdom'. The UK / USA commercial companies along with others developed Rcvrs that not only received Sat data but also correctional data from earth stations to reverse as far as possible SA. US Govt after some years of running SA then switched it off. GPS signals were then left intact.
But the damage was done. No-one wanted to rely on USA GPS anymore and Europe started developing its own system, while Russia had not been far behind USA in launching its own. But Russia ran into various financial matters and of course the launching of sats .. so their coverage was not total. (In fact NO GPS system has total coverage of the Globe ... ).

OK we can move on ... as Galileo gets launched - USA puts pressure on EU to have Galileo fall into line with USA GPS that if requested it will be switched off same as USA GPS. At this time - there is a general agreement on this. You can now see that various interests around the world are not too happy about this and given that the technology is widely known - leads to other systems.

OK ... but one thing remains and is back to my start lines ...

USA GPS does get switched off or manipulated at times globally or just specific geographical areas depending on Military operations / exercises at the time and leading up to. So it is not unknown for yachts etc. to find positional data from GPS going crazy ! We will leave out Car Nav as that uses 'Jump to Road' to keep icon travelling along the road unless you accept Off-Road ...

Summary :

USA GPS is liable to error or switch off depending on military at that time and location.
GLONASS is liable to 're-focus' depending on where Russian activity is prevalent.
Galileo is way behind schedule and suffers constant arguments between partners ... basically because of the French !!
India / China are launching and getting it commissioned.

I apologise for digressing from guys post ... but felt it might have some relevance as so many people are shocked when GPS stops working ...

Nigel

A couple of comments on Nigel's excellent discussion on GPS. There are not really two separate US GPS systems. There is only one GPS system. Organizations with the proper credentials (military for one) have access to the precision codes which have higher accuracy than the civilian codes that we all have access to. In addition there is a thing called selective availability which further degrades the civilian accuracy. Clinton turned it off several years ago. The accuracy of the civilian availability can be greatly improved by a technique called differential GPS. The FAA now has satellites called WAAS which provide differential accuracy for all civilian users that is close to the P-code accuracy. As far as the system being turned off completely at random times, that should not be a concern. GPS is now commonly used for aircraft navigation and instrument landing. Turning the system off without warning could have disastrous consequences for both private and commercial aviation.

 

[michaelts]

Great post! I cannot stress enough the importance of being able to fly in ATTI mode confidently. A couple of times the same happened to me, and I know well the feeling. The key here is not to panic, but remain calm which is possible only if you are prepared and know exactly what to do in this situation.

One technique is not to look at the drone at all, but instead look exclusively at the smartphone/tablet so that you can see what the drone sees, i.e. FPV. Raise the drone up and rotate it until you can clearly recognize the location where you are at. Then simply fly to that location. Practice at a beach when it is windy. Start in P mode, fly at least ~500ft away over the water, then switch to ATTI and bring the drone back confidently by using FPV only.

The other technique is when you have no connection with the smartphone/tablet, but can see the drone. The problem, of course, is that you cannot clearly see the orientation. Push the right stick "up" (to move the drone forward) and at the same time push the left stick slightly to the left. The drone will start making a large circle. By looking at what direction it moves--left or right--you can figure out the orientation and then continue the circle until you reach a point where you release the left stick and the drone is not moving to the sides, but moves directly towards you. Obviously, this also requires practice.

By the way, ATTI mode is a great advantage of Phantom 3 models. I read in the posts that DJI removed ATTI in their newer models (I believe it was Mavic Pro). People were complaining that you can end up in ATTI mode when there are no satellites, but you cannot yourself activate it when you want it.

 

[GraffitiChris07]

Any videos of your NSX?

Sorry, Car guy here! Lol.