Geofencing - sneaking under the wire

[WetDog]

DJI stated that they would implement 'Geofencing' by the end of 2015. So far, we've not heard a peep. But I have seen something that I presume is what they are leading towards in the 1.6 firmware. Kinda surprised no one else has commented. Perhaps the meds aren't as strong as they used to be...

But I'm pretty sure that is what I'm seeing. If I fly in the 'restricted area' shown by various maps - in my case less than 5 miles from an airport, I see a "Restricted Area" dialog box complete with a paper airplane icon with a line through it. Clicking 'OK' makes the dialog box go away. Looking at the aircraft's lights, the back lights flash red three times and then fast blink green.

When I move outside the five mile radius, the lights act normally and the dialog box doesn't show up.

No mention of anywhere to sign up to make the warnings go away. Otherwise, the Phantom behaves normally.

 

[aka1ceman]

I think there are many here that dont want" people" to know about this before they update.
They would rather tell you Shhhhhh and hope you go away.

 

[WetDog]

I guess everybody is avoiding no fly zones. Or updating the firmware....

 

[Meta4]

No.. that's not new. That's the way it's always been. Last I heard, it might be out sometime in January

 

[Alex Folds]

What is wrong with this company that there is so much deception and unclarity as to what they intend to do with our drones? Why can't they have an announcement that is a clear communication as to what is going on, and when it will take place, and then follow through on that? I cannot fly in Guatemala city without the self-validation option, because although Guatemala has no laws about flying within 5 miles of the airport AND the guatemala airport is not listed at all under DJI's No Fly Zone, it still restricts my flying within 5 miles of the airport, which is the entire city. I've been hit with an invisible ban hammer and left out to dry by DJI on this one.

This company just doesn't have their act together, thats why there hasn't been a word or action since we first heard of it.

As to your sneaking under the wire. Do you think it would be possible to get around geofencing using a negative height? Say taking off from a tall rooftop and flying down to 50 AGL from street level to get a negative altitude and trick the phantom into thinking it isnt in a restricted zone?

 

[BigAl07]

I could be wrong but I don't think DJI sees the no fly zone as 3-dimenasional where you could fly "under it". I believe it's a flat plate extending from lava to infinity.

I've not tested this theory but I don't see DJI implementing true 3D mapping into their systems.

 

[WetDog]

What's not new? I fly pretty much the same places - after 1.6 I get the box and the seasonally appropriate blinky lights. Before, no.

 

[aka1ceman]

...not new? I've never had it with 1.4 or 1.5 with any airports near here. Just the no fly around Washington DC.
There are certain people in this forum, for some reason want to down play or deny these changes. Same ones who claim it's fear mongering. Same ones who hate the fact that a few of us can say "we told you so".
Meanwhile, they try to call me out for not wanting to update my firmware. Maybe if DJ I was more open and upfront people wouldn't have an issue.

 

[Meta4]

What is wrong with this company that there is so much deception and unclarity as to what they intend to do with our drones? Why can't they have an announcement that is a clear communication as to what is going on, and when it will take place, and then follow through on that?
This company just doesn't have their act together, thats why there hasn't been a word or action since we first heard of it.

This seems to be a pretty clear declaration as to what DJI intend doing:
DJI Technology Policy Announcement-HD
There are too many people eager to explain away the simplest things as DJI deception.
As for delays, it was suggested sometime December but all kinds of ambitious hightech projects run into unintended delays.
FYI a DJI guy on their forum is saying January.
That's their intention .. if they achieve it is another thing - but it's not deception at all.
It's just DJI running their business the way they choose to.

 

[Meta4]

But I have seen something that I presume is what they are leading towards in the 1.6 firmware.

But I'm pretty sure that is what I'm seeing. If I fly in the 'restricted area' shown by various maps - in my case less than 5 miles from an airport, I see a "Restricted Area" dialog box complete with a paper airplane icon with a line through it. Clicking 'OK' makes the dialog box go away. Looking at the aircraft's lights, the back lights flash red three times and then fast blink green.

When I move outside the five mile radius, the lights act normally and the dialog box doesn't show up.

What's not new? I fly pretty much the same places - after 1.6 I get the box and the seasonally appropriate blinky lights. Before, no.

Check P41-43 in your manual.
This sounds like the same thing I encountered back in June and again last week.
From your description, I can't see that you've discovered anything new.

 

[WetDog]

This seems to be a pretty clear declaration as to what DJI intend doing:
DJI Technology Policy Announcement-HD
There are too many people eager to explain away the simplest things as DJI deception.
As for delays, it was suggested sometime December but all kinds of ambitious hightech projects run into unintended delays.
FYI a DJI guy on their forum is saying January.
That's their intention .. if they achieve it is another thing - but it's not deception at all.
It's just DJI running their business the way they choose to.

I don't know if I'd call it a deception, but DJI is certainly less than forthcoming. Clearly there are bits of geofencing in 1.6. So far, there is no opt-out. Not a big deal since you just get a screen. And if DJI had just bothered to tell us everything they are changing in a new version and not sinning by omission, I would, at least be happier.

Apple pulls this all of the time. Eventually, people find out, I fail to see why they think the strategy of partial documentation really helps anyone.

 

[WetDog]

Check P41-43 in your manual.
This sounds like the same thing I encountered back in June and again last week.
From your description, I can't see that you've discovered anything new.

Sorta, not quite. And the system does not behave in the way the manual describes -

I can fly in a no fly zone - just dismiss the box. TFM states that the motors will not start.

TFM says the indicator light is 'red flashing' - that never occurred before 1.6. In fact, I went back to look at some video I took of the bird in the same places were I get the Red - Red - Red - Green - Green sequence and it was just merrily flashing green (under 1.32 or 1.4, not sure which)

So, DJI really should come clean if they have changed behaviors from the canonical manual's description. I'm sure it's just an oversight and they consider it not a 'big deal' but it does speak to DJI's ability to accurately tell users what is going on.

The current Phantom 3 Advanced manual is dated 03/22/2013....

 

[Meta4]

Clearly there are bits of geofencing in 1.6. So far, there is no opt-out.
And if DJI had just bothered to tell us everything they are changing in a new version and not sinning by omission, I would, at least be happier.

Bits of geofencing have been in the P3 system since it was released.
That's why you can't fly in certain areas.
DJI announced they intend to introduce an overide and it's taking a little longer than they announced.
Things always take longer than intended.
That's probably at least part of why DJI don't lock themselves in by making firm announcements

The current Phantom 3 Advanced manual is dated 03/22/2013....

You need to update yourself
Check the DJI website and you'll find ... Phantom 3 Advanced User Manual (EN) v1.6 2015-11-03

So, DJI really should come clean if they have changed behaviors from the canonical manual's description. I'm sure it's just an oversight and they consider it not a 'big deal' but it does speak to DJI's ability to accurately tell users what is going on.

There's nothing that DJI need to come clean about.
They have announced what is in the firmware updates.
Users misunderstanding and inventing conspiracy theories is out of their control.

 

[WetDog]

Umm, let's not go to the conspiracy thing. I did not even remotely bring it up. Remember Hanlon's (Heinlein's?) Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can more easily be atrributed to incompetence.

As to the manual (a minor issue) but interesting -

This link gives a manual date of 04/2015
But this one has a date of 10/2015 (which is what I believe you are referring to).

Both are on the DJI website. I probably should have double checked that I was looking at the current version, just did a quick Internet search. Interestingly, the newest manual still insists that the bird won't start in a no fly zone. I'm going to have to take it to the airport and check it.

Again, no conspiracy or deep issues. Just not so competent.

Thanks for the update on the manual. Would have missed it otherwise.

 

[Meta4]

Interestingly, the newest manual still insists that the bird won't start in a no fly zone. I'm going to have to take it to the airport and check it.

Here's the relevant section from the current manual:
Note there are different types of restricted zones and takeoff is possible within a Restricted Altitude Zone.
I've done this twice myself for safe flights only 30 feet up a few miles from airports.
The warning in the app just says Restricted Zone

And here's what the indicator lights would show:

 

[Alex Folds]

My no fly zone for the guatemala airport is the entire 5 miles. I cannot fly within or take of Anywhere within 5 miles of the airport, and it is not listed on the no fly zone. That I cannot comprehend.

 

[LuvMyTJ]

I find it disturbing that people here make mountains out of mole hills, turn nothing into a conspiracy against users. Paranoia at it's finest.
3DR is doing the same thing with the same company, they also said by December & it hasn't happened for them yet either. Maybe it's an AirMap problem, has anyone thought of that?

PS - incase any of you new guys were wondering, Phantom Pilots has absolutely nothing to do with DJI. There is no connection what so ever.

 

[aka1ceman]

.....it's also disturbing to sit and watch certain peoplefloat down "denial " river. There HAS been a slow migration of added limitations that original owners did not have or possibly want. Some of you guys TJ don't mind some of the changes (and that's fine for you) but denying that there were any changes (and yelling fear mongering, conspiracy theories ) is completely wrong. Now we may disagree (lawyers, safety, cya) why DJI has made these is one thing, but these ARE changes that have been made along the way.

 

[LuvMyTJ]

Who is denying changes? And I think most people knew it would happen and agree with them to some extent.
I personally hate 'nanny' features, but I also hate uniformed people flying recklessly.

 

[James Connerly]

This seems to be a pretty clear declaration as to what DJI intend doing:
DJI Technology Policy Announcement-HD
There are too many people eager to explain away the simplest things as DJI deception.
As for delays, it was suggested sometime December but all kinds of ambitious hightech projects run into unintended delays.
FYI a DJI guy on their forum is saying January.
That's their intention .. if they achieve it is another thing - but it's not deception at all.
It's just DJI running their business the way they choose to.

Very informative. Thanks for posting.