AVIATION HANDHELD TRANSCIEVER

[Philltayl]

Please don't confuse the issue.
I am an inactive PP due to vision.

It was you who posted that full scale operations were restricted in altitude. I was just setting the record stright.

 

[Mark The Droner]

Yes - we've had many discussions on the meaning of "notify" and "prior notification" too... and that is kind of a grey / confusing area. Obviously, the tower should have some say. Logically, they should have the right to say "No you may not fly 400 feet at the end of our runway", so notification followed by some sort of acknowledgement is what makes sense.

See this drone attorney's assessment here: Model Aircraft Operations

 

[Bob D.]

That's is my understanding, All Part107 sUAV clearance request need to go through the FAA website. I also thought it was not recommend to 'self announce' unless absolutely necessary, and only at un-towered airports??

Last month before the Hurricane, I flew up in St. Augustine, FL inside their airport traffic area. All I did was contact the tower the day before. They gave me the control tower number and asked me to call the next morning 5 minutes before launch (they put my into on the ATIS) and after landing. No issue at all. I even contacted the NPS director up there and got permission from them to overfly a Fort inside the NPS.

 

[N017RW]

It was you who posted that full scale operations were restricted in altitude. I was just setting the record stright.

No. I said sUAS under 101 are restricted to 400'. That is 100' below full scale min operating altitude. Yes there are times when full scale will be below 500 but not in many cases.

 

[Philltayl]

No. I said sUAS under 101 are restricted to 400'. That is 100' below full scale min operating altitude. Yes there are times when full scale will be below 500 but not in many cases.

There , you just said it again. Full scale operations are NOT restricted to a min of 500'. Go and read the FAR's again.

 

[RJ_Make]

Last month before the Hurricane, I flew up in St. Augustine, FL inside their airport traffic area. All I did was contact the tower the day before. They gave me the control tower number and asked me to call the next morning 5 minutes before launch (they put my into on the ATIS) and after landing. No issue at all. I even contacted the NPS director up there and got permission from them to overfly a Fort inside the NPS.

I'm just commenting on how the FAA wants access request done. If the airports ATC is willing to handle it directly then perfect.

 

[N017RW]

There , you just said it again. Full scale operations are NOT restricted to a min of 500'. Go and read the FAR's again.

I'm referring to this:
Over other than congested areas... An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

I'm not interested in exceptions as this is the reason for the 400' 101 guideline.

 

[RJ_Make]

This might help clear this up..

From Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Frequently Asked Questions/Help

1. How do I request permission from Air Traffic Control to operate in Class B, C, D, or E airspace? Is there a way to request permission electronically?
   You can request airspace authorization through an online web portal available at www.faa.gov/uas/request_waiver.
   
   
2. Can I contact my local air traffic control tower or facility directly to request airspace permission?
   No. All airspace permission requests must be made through the online portal.
   

 

[Philltayl]

I'm referring to this:
Over other than congested areas... An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

I'm not interested in exceptions as this is the reason for the 400' 101 guideline.

closer than 500' is not a vertical limitation, I can legally fly at 25' AGL , but 500' away from those things in a slant/horizontal sense .

Also my vintage bi-plane has a very poor climb rate so I could well be below 500' 5 miles from take off......

 

[AWD]

I have an Airline Transport Pilot License and an old FCC Radio Operators License so that's not an issue for me. Call Sign would be my Drone Registration number.

Hey! That's two of us that still have that old piece of paper for the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit.

AD


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots

 

[JWH]

I am a pilot. I have a handheld radio that I always take with me when flying the Cessna. I have it in case of a radio failure in the plane. I have never needed it, so far.

To answer the original question as to whether to call the tower on the handheld radio, I would recommend not doing so. This isn't because of any legal issues. It is because of the varied reactions you will get.

I worked in many control towers during my FAA career. I can tell you that controllers are like any other large group of people. Some are the nicest people you will ever meet. Others are total jerks. Some will be curious about your drone operation and be very helpful. Others will consider it annoying and want to shut it down. They are all aware of liability issues and VERY nervous about anything that may interfere with the normal traffic flow. If they are the slightest bit confused or concerned about your drone operation, they will most likely say don't fly (whether or not they have the real authority to do so).

Be aware that all radio transmissions are recorded. Anything that interrupts the radio frequency is a potential hazard to airport operations. They will locate and prosecute. I have seen that in action more than once.

In addition to all of that, they most likely won't hear you unless you are within line of sight of the receiver. The receivers aren't always in the control tower. We always had issues reaching the tower using the low power handheld radios when we worked on the airports if there were any obstructions between us and the receiver.

I highly recommend the B4UFLY app. Check the TFR's. Call on the phone if you are within 5 miles. And please stay out of controlled airspace at all costs, so we don't get more regulations!

 

[MacCool]

Hey! That's two of us that still have that old piece of paper for the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit.

Three of us..

As I understand it from my last Flight Review, RRs aren't necessary any more to operate an aircraft station, but they are still required to operate a ground station (such as a VHF transceiver). I don't have a VHF transceiver, but if I did and if I had an ATC facility around here that cared about drones, I'd likely call them or drop in to ask them that question about radio contact for drone flights. My guess is that that's at least a grey area with the FAA and may very well vary from ATC facility to ATC facility.

 

[JWH]

Three of us..

As I understand it from my last Flight Review, RRs aren't necessary any more to operate an aircraft station, but they are still required to operate a ground station (such as a VHF transceiver). I don't have a VHF transceiver, but if I did and if I had an ATC facility around here that cared about drones, I'd likely call them or drop in to ask them that question about radio contact for drone flights. My guess is that that's at least a grey area with the FAA and may very well vary from ATC facility to ATC facility.

A radio operator license hasn't been required in the plane for quite some time. I do have the FCC paperwork in the plane along with the airworthiness certificate and registration paperwork. Then you have to have your medical and pilot certificates. It will start effecting my weight and balance numbers if they require anymore paperwork!

 

[MacCool]

A radio operator license hasn't been required in the plane for quite some time. I do have the FCC paperwork in the plane along with the airworthiness certificate and registration paperwork. Then you have to have your medical and pilot certificates. It will start effecting my weight and balance numbers if they require anymore paperwork!

I don't think a station license is required for the aircraft anymore either (unless flying internationally).

 

[JWH]

There , you just said it again. Full scale operations are NOT restricted to a min of 500'. Go and read the FAR's again.

I just noticed that you are in the UK. I don't know anything about the flight rules there. Section "C" is where the people are getting the 500' number from. I never get much below 2,000' when I fly unless I am taking off or landing.


Sec. 91.119 — Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:


(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface—

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and

(2) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section.

[Docket No. 18334, 54 FR 34294, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91–311, 75 FR 5223, Feb. 1, 2010]

 

[Philltayl]

I just noticed that you are in the UK. I don't know anything about the flight rules there. Section "C" is where the people are getting the 500' number from. I never get much below 2,000' when I fly unless I am taking off or landing.


Sec. 91.119 — Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:


(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface—

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and

(2) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section.

[Docket No. 18334, 54 FR 34294, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91–311, 75 FR 5223, Feb. 1, 2010]

UK/EASA rules are slightly different. I do regularly fly at low (1000') due to weather and the VFR rules. I do have an IR rating but it is sometimes just easier to fly a bit lower than the cloud base. BTW most places have climate, UK has weather..

 

[brothers]

Hey! That's two of us that still have that old piece of paper for the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit.

Three. Got mine in the early seventies.

 

[dmagnus]

Four, I got mine in the mid 60's...

 

[Grandpa Don]

I have had a long conversation with the FAA about this Hand Held Radio subject. Below is what they replied. It seems that the FAA wouldn't care, but I think the jurisdiction is with the FCC. I guess we need to contact them. My first contact with them is on the bottom. Start at the bottom and read up.
Grandpa Don

FAA's response:

"I apologize for the delayed response. As noted before, the FAA does not have any requirements for the manner of notification, although ATC or airports may have preference for the manner of notification."


Regards,
FAA UAS Integration Office
[email protected]
http://www.faa.gov/uas




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 12:08 PM
To: 9-NATL-UAS-Help (FAA)
Subject: Re: Message from www.faa.gov: [email protected]

So what you are saying is that if the facility, Tower, or ground, agrees before hand, then it would not be illegal to use a handheld VHF radio to communicate my intentions. Is that how you understand it?


On 9/12/2016 6:44 AM, [email protected] wrote:

The law requires notification. The operation you describe would require notification; however, the manner of notification is between the airport and the operator. The FAA does not have specific requirements on the notification process.


Regards,
FAA UAS Integration Office
[email protected]
http://www.faa.gov/uas




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 9:30 AM
To: 9-NATL-UAS-Help (FAA)
Subject: Re: Message from www.faa.gov: [email protected]


I have not yet received an answer to this question. Please respond.

Don Jordan

"So would it be illegal or inappropriate to use my VHF radio to contact the tower or ground control if it was in operation at the time? As I stated before, I am a licensed pilot and have used my portable radio many times at our uncontrolled airport to talk to other aircraft. My drone is registered with the FAA and I do have a number."


Don


On 9/6/2016 8:09 AM, [email protected] wrote:

Thank you for your inquiry. The law requires notification for any recreational UAS operation within five miles of an operation; the FAA does not have any requirements about the nature of notification. You may be able to find contact information here: Airport Data.


Regards,
FAA UAS Integration Office
[email protected]
http://www.faa.gov/uas




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 11:40 AM
To: 9-NATL-UAS-Help (FAA)
Subject: Message from www.faa.gov: [email protected]

This email was sent through the Federal Aviation Administration's
public website. You have been contacted via an email link on the
following page: http://www.faa.gov/uas/contact/


Message:
----------------------
In reference to regulation stating: "5 miles from airports without prior notification to airport and air traffic control."
How does one go about notifying or contacting the control authority? Example, I am a licensed fixed wing pilot with a portable aircraft radio. If I wish to fly my drone at very low altitude within one miles of an airport, could I use my radio to contact the tower for permission? My drone is registered with the FAA and has a Registration number. My flight would be for pleasure and not for work. Do I need permission if I stay below 50 feet AGL?

 

[pe9999]

I not concerned. You do as you wish.

With all you're license and such you should be very aware of why the FAA did not require radio protocol training and testing.

I still use my phone to contact the tower but I use the radio to listen in when I fly close to the airport.