Airspace Effective Hours - Help Me Understand

[SkyFrog]

Pretty much everything in the main economic sector of our town is included within ILM (Wilmington Int'l) airspace. However, the chart says "See NOTAMs/Supplement for Class D eff hrs". So I went to the supplement and discovered that the Class D airspace is in operation from 1100Z - 0400Z - translating to 7:00AM - 12:00PM (EST) - if my Zulu to Eastern Standard Time translation is correct...

Other times, it is Class E2 airspace, with a 700ft AGL floor.

What does this mean if I want to conduct a commercial flight - obviously below 400ft - within 2 miles of the airport, at say, 3:00 in the afternoon? I will not be in active airspace right? I don't need to file a waiver with the FAA, right? Do I need to inform ATC the day of my operation, or what?

Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[sar104]

Pretty much everything in the main economic sector of our town is included within ILM (Wilmington Int'l) airspace. However, the chart says "See NOTAMs/Supplement for Class D eff hrs". So I went to the supplement and discovered that the Class D airspace is in operation from 1100Z - 0400Z - translating to 7:00AM - 12:00PM (EST) - if my Zulu to Eastern Standard Time translation is correct...

Other times, it is Class E2 airspace, with a 700ft AGL floor.

What does this mean if I want to conduct a commercial flight - obviously below 400ft - within 2 miles of the airport, at say, 3:00 in the afternoon? I will not be in active airspace right? I don't need to file a waiver with the FAA, right? Do I need to inform ATC the day of my operation, or what?

Any insight would be appreciated.

1100Z - 0400Z is 0700 - 0000 EST, not 0700 - 1200 MST. 1500 MST is in Class D hours, so you do need a waiver.

 

[SkyFrog]

Duh. You're right. I got way too excited. Dammit.

 

[BigAl07]

1100Z - 0400Z is 0700 - 0000 EST, not 0700 - 1200 MST. 1500 MST is in Class D hours, so you do need a waiver.

Good catch.

Gotta watch those time conversions and remember 24hr time format. It can bite you in the tail feathers if you're not careful.

 

[SkyFrog]

Here's my problem. I've got a juicy pending commercial property job within 2 miles of the airport. I only need about 300-350 ft agl. My client can't wait 90+ days for me to 'maybe' get a waiver. There's regulations, and then there's reality. What [EXPLETIVE REMOVED] are we supposed to do? When will the FAA recognize us as capable professionals that contribute to our local economies in valuable ways?

 

[sar104]

Here's my problem. I've got a juicy pending commercial property job within 2 miles of the airport. I only need about 300-350 ft agl. My client can't wait 90+ days for me to 'maybe' get a waiver. There's regulations, and then there's reality. What in the hell are we supposed to do? When will the FAA recognize us as capable professionals that contribute to our local economies in valuable ways?

I think that there are plans to speed up the authorization process but, until then, it is what it is. What you are supposed to do is apply for a waiver and wait the 90 days or whatever it takes. There is no other legal option and I doubt that the FAA regards economic growth as one of its areas of responsibility.

 

[BigAl07]

Here's my problem. I've got a juicy pending commercial property job within 2 miles of the airport. I only need about 300-350 ft agl. My client can't wait 90+ days for me to 'maybe' get a waiver. There's regulations, and then there's reality. What [EXPLETIVE REMOVED] are we supposed to do? When will the FAA recognize us as capable professionals that contribute to our local economies in valuable ways?

Don't take this wrong but it's a LOT better than it has been and "supposed" to get better hopefully by July 2018.

Until then we educate our clients and do the best we can to accommodate their wishes while staying well within FAA regs.

..... job within 2 miles of the airport. I only need about 300-350 ft agl.....

That's asking a good bit being 2 miles from the airport. If you look at the "Grid" for your airport you will see what the "Easily Approved" altitudes are in regards to distance from the airport. For example here in Asheville (KAVL) the majority of the "Easily Approved" sections at 2m out are showing 100' as max ceiling with 50'AGL within 1 mile.

 

[YogiFlyer]

Until then we educate our clients and do the best we can to accommodate their wishes while staying well within FAA regs.

Yep...this is the right thing to do. I've run across quite a few real estate agents who didn't even know there were rules. When we had that discussion, it made sense to them, even though I had to turn down the job. It will get better soon....this is all very new territory for everyone involved, but busting the rules for economic benefit does not make us, as a group, look very good when the person finds out there are rules. Unless you smack into an airplane, or cause some other major disturbance, it's unlikely anyone gets caught....but that's not really the point, right?

 

[BigAl07]

Yep...this is the right thing to do. I've run across quite a few real estate agents who didn't even know there were rules. When we had that discussion, it made sense to them, even though I had to turn down the job. It will get better soon....this is all very new territory for everyone involved, but busting the rules for economic benefit does not make us, as a group, look very good when the person finds out there are rules. Unless you smack into an airplane, or cause some other major disturbance, it's unlikely anyone gets caught....but that's not really the point, right?

Well said.

If a professional gives you grief (especially a Realtor) ask them about how they handle rules, regulations, and LAW in their field of work. Mention things such as "Truth in lending", Code of Ethics, and just good morals and see if this helps them understand why you're trying to do things the right and LEGAL way.

 

[SkyFrog]

...I doubt that the FAA regards economic growth as one of its areas of responsibility.

Of course they don't. What kind of federal bureaucracy would they be if economic growth was offered as a consideration in their plans?

 

[lalvar40]

Here's my problem. I've got a juicy pending commercial property job within 2 miles of the airport.

I had exactly the same issue. My client could not wait 90 days. I submitted the application as soon as I got the lead. However, the FAA says: "The FAA encourages applicants to submit applications at least 90 days prior to the start of the proposed operation." There is no way I will know the need of my customers 90 days in advance. At the end, my client hired a real helicopter, he paid a lot much more, and I lost that "juicy" deal.

 

[SkyFrog]

I had exactly the same issue. My client could not wait 90 days. I submitted the application as soon as I got the lead. However, the FAA says: "The FAA encourages applicants to submit applications at least 90 days prior to the start of the proposed operation." There is no way I will know the need of my customers 90 days in advance. At the end, my client hired a real helicopter, he paid a lot much more, and I lost that "juicy" deal.

Yep. It may be possible for super large one time event jobs, like for an NFL game or something, 90 days advance is feasible. However, for the rest of us here in the real world trying to scrape together a living, it's an insane proposal. It accomplishes nothing but encouraging people who would otherwise be compliant with the law to break it. I am glad they're supposedly working on a real time solution via some app - but that doesn't help me today.

 

[Just Mark]

Just out of curiosity, what is the typical fine (if there is one) for busting controlled airspace?

I have no intention of doing so. It's just that i am a real estate photographer and I know that some of my clients are going to ask about it (since there is a lot of controlled airspace in the SF bay Area). So I would like to tell them something like, "Yeah, we can fly there without permission. just write me a check for $10,000 and I will return it within 90 days if we DON'T get busted by the FAA, promise."

Also, again, just to get them to see it through our eyes, would criminal penalties end with just the RPIC? Or would the company hiring the RPIC also face possible prison time if the RPIC busted controlled / restricted / prohibited airspace?

Maybe i am being dumb here, but I think if we could share a real-life story about a real estate broker who is now wearing an orange jumpsuit because they hired someone who busted controlled airspace then maybe they will take safety as importantly as RPICs do.

 

[YogiFlyer]

FAA enforcement action for violating rules is generally civil, unless you smack into an airplane and people die, or otherwise be proven to endanger the public. Then the U.S. Attorney becomes involved and you're in for a nice prison sentence. I haven't heard whether a client could be held liable, but I suppose if they were knowledgeable on the rules, and went ahead anyway, it's very likely the FAA might try to fine them.

Drone Operator Will Pay $200,000 Fine for Violating FAA Regulations

Keep in mind that the article references a settlement for activity prior to Part 107 being released. However, you have a license now...so you know better. So, the FAA won't play nice with you if you are caught. If they were able to strong arm a settlement of that size out of someone prior to Part 107, I'm sure they can do more with specific rules in place now. They can and will do everything they can to make your life as miserable as possible should they decide to take any action whatsoever, even if its just an investigation without any fines. I don't believe they have a limit on civil enforcement of rules depending on the severity of the violation.

 

[Just Mark]

Thank you for the link and for your input.

 

[AIRSPCMGR]

In threads like this, I would have some suggestions. #1. BE CAREFUL! People will post advice without being fully informed themselves, and what they tell you will pull no weight with the FAA when you get violated. #2. Know the law that applies to your situation. If you are not familiar with 49 USC; PL 112-95, sections 331-336; CFR 14 Part 107; and FAA Advisory Circular AC no 91-57A, don't fly until you are. Every time you pick up off of the ground, you are operating within the National Airspace System (NAS), and you are culpable for the rules that exist when you do. Why am I giving everyone this advice? I am currently a military Airspace Manager, 35 year staff Air Traffic Controller, and a pilot. I have airspace in 3 states consisting of 6 Military Operations Areas (MOA), and two Restricted Areas. I also have 6 Military Training Routes (MTRs) where low-level (<500 AGL), high speed operations (>450 KTS) are conducted, and I have to deal with UAS operations on a regular basis, both large and small. STAY CURRENTLY INFORMED! Small UAS operations are a moving target with the FAA and things change quite often. KNOW WHERE YOU ARE FLYING, AND WHOM IN THE NAS YOU COULD AFFECT! Where ATC is concerned, COORDINATE FULLY! Tell them the who, what, where, when, and why of your operation when required. That still may not get you an approval to operate when or where you want to, but it will go a lot further in helping them get more comfortable with your operation, and will certainly help the approval process overall. And last, but certainly not least, ASK QUESTIONS IF YOU ARE NOT SURE ABOUT SOMETHING. Go forth, and fly safely.

 

[BigAl07]

Welcome to the forum @AIRSPCMGR . Solid advice. Thank you for your input.

 

[AIRSPCMGR]

Welcome to the forum @AIRSPCMGR . Solid advice. Thank you for your input.

Thank you.

 

[y2khardtop]

I got my airspace Auth's in 90 days, but my Delta opens at 7am. This time of year I could easily fly before the tower opens.

LAANC is coming soon however, hopefully this issue will be resolved this fall. I have anothe airspace I should have requested, but now it's too late to expect it to come before LAANC