Where am I going wrong?

[pilot ss]

Hi all,
I have asked a few questions on previous threads regarding settings on the P4P camera, and I have now spent a few hours in the air testing through trial and error, along with countless hours of reading, and researching into camera settings.
I have come to the conclusion that I must be doing something very wrong, as I am just seeing no improvements at all, and not seeing stills out of my P4P that others are seeming to achieve.

My problems seem to be with stills. I am shooting in RAW, manual mode, playing around with the f stop and also the shutter speed. I try and shoot everything at ISO 100, to try and reduce the noise.
I have included a RAW photo, straight out of the P4P, with no editing whatsoever ever. The settings for this particular shot are:
ISO 100
F/6.3
1/500
Style 0, 0, 0
None
AWB

Dropbox - DJI_0190.DNG

Even playing around with this RAW image in post, I am not seeing the improvements that I want to be seeing.

I have been tapping in the centre of the screen for the tap to focus feature, and I have also been holding the shutter button at half to focus.
To me, this photo looks out of focus, and the further that you get from the centre it just gets worse, and worse.
I played around with the f stop and also the shutter speed, however, reviewing them they all seem to look out of focus and soft.
Zooming into 100% at the light house, looks awful.

I have no photography background, so like I said I am reading a lot, and also playing around with settings, to try and find the sweet spot.

Any help/tips where I may be going wrong would be VERY much appreciated. It is starting to get frustrating, and also a little disappointing. I am sure it is a case of user error, rather then something wrong with the sensor.

I am not wanting to have to choose auto settings, as I purchased the P4P with the intensions on achieving very high quality images, that I have seen many be able to achieve with the P4P.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Kirby Johnson]

OK. I finally found the Adobe download for Win 64 and installed it and downloaded your shot. You are right it is rough. But the weather looks hazy too, that might have something to do with it. I agree it does look out of focus. Before you go haywire, wait for a clean clear day with bright sunshine and try again and you (and your friends here) will have more luck deciphering what is wrong. You had your lens stopped down around 6,so your depth of field should be pretty long, ISO 100 gives you the least noise, like you said, and 1/500 of a second is plenty fast enough, so it looks to be a glass (focus) issue. I have the 3A so hopefully one of the 4 owners can help. I am an experienced photographer, but not in drones.

 

[KevMo Photog]

Hi all,
I have asked a few questions on previous threads regarding settings on the P4P camera, and I have now spent a few hours in the air testing through trial and error, along with countless hours of reading, and researching into camera settings.
I have come to the conclusion that I must be doing something very wrong, as I am just seeing no improvements at all, and not seeing stills out of my P4P that others are seeming to achieve.

My problems seem to be with stills. I am shooting in RAW, manual mode, playing around with the f stop and also the shutter speed. I try and shoot everything at ISO 100, to try and reduce the noise.
I have included a RAW photo, straight out of the P4P, with no editing whatsoever ever. The settings for this particular shot are:
ISO 100
F/6.3
1/500
Style 0, 0, 0
None
AWB

Dropbox - DJI_0190.DNG

Even playing around with this RAW image in post, I am not seeing the improvements that I want to be seeing.

I have been tapping in the centre of the screen for the tap to focus feature, and I have also been holding the shutter button at half to focus.
To me, this photo looks out of focus, and the further that you get from the centre it just gets worse, and worse.
I played around with the f stop and also the shutter speed, however, reviewing them they all seem to look out of focus and soft.
Zooming into 100% at the light house, looks awful.

I have no photography background, so like I said I am reading a lot, and also playing around with settings, to try and find the sweet spot.

Any help/tips where I may be going wrong would be VERY much appreciated. It is starting to get frustrating, and also a little disappointing. I am sure it is a case of user error, rather then something wrong with the sensor.

I am not wanting to have to choose auto settings, as I purchased the P4P with the intensions on achieving very high quality images, that I have seen many be able to achieve with the P4P.

Thanks in advance!

This is def out of focus pilot ss! Do you have auto focus assist turned on? When you tap the screen to focus does your image blow up bigger to help see area in focus? Are you focusing right before you took this shot or focusing on something that's a lot closer earlier in the flight?

 

[Meta4]

I have come to the conclusion that I must be doing something very wrong, as I am just seeing no improvements at all, and not seeing stills out of my P4P that others are seeming to achieve.

My problems seem to be with stills. I am shooting in RAW, manual mode, playing around with the f stop and also the shutter speed. I try and shoot everything at ISO 100, to try and reduce the noise.
I have no photography background, so like I said I am reading a lot, and also playing around with settings, to try and find the sweet spot.
Any help/tips where I may be going wrong would be VERY much appreciated. It is starting to get frustrating, and also a little disappointing. I am sure it is a case of user error, rather then something wrong with the sensor.
I am not wanting to have to choose auto settings, as I purchased the P4P with the intensions on achieving very high quality images, that I have seen many be able to achieve with the P4P.

I think your problem is that you are trying too hard to get the "best" results.
If you have no photographic background, try using auto at first.
Auto will get you good results most of the time but screwing around with controls you don't understand is more likely to get you poor results much of the time.

The example you posted is not a good one to be using.
Yes, it isn't sharply focused but everything in the photo is distant background and the light is flat and dull.
Go and shoot something well lit and less than 100 feet away and see what that looks like.

And don't bother with raw and thinking that is the "best" (and anything else is going to be inferior).
A raw image file is like a cake tin full of uncooked cake.
All the ingrediants are there but until it's cooked, it's not going to show how good the cake is.
If you have no photographic experience, start with jpg files.
The P4pro produces beautiful jpgs that are all most users would ever need.
I have 40 years photography experience and shoot professionally and shoot nothing but jpg .. and I use auto exposure too most of the time.
Look at my photo website and see what quality is possible.

 

[KevMo Photog]

I think your problem is that you are trying too hard to get the "best" results.
If you have no photographic background, try using auto at first.
Auto will get you good results most of the time but screwing around with controls you don't understand is more likely to get you poor results much of the time.

The example you posted is not a good one to be using.
Yes, it isn't sharply focused but everything in the photo is distant and the light is flat and dull.
Go and shoot something well lit and less than 100 feet away and see what that looks like.

And don't bother with raw and thinking that is the "best" (and anything else is going to be inferior).
A raw image file is like a cake tin full of uncooked cake.
All the ingrediants are there but until it's cooked, it's not going to show how good the cake is.
If you have no photographic experience, start with jpg files.
The P4pro produces beautiful jpgs that are all most users would ever need.
I have 40 years photography experience and shoot professionally and shoot nothing but jpg .. and I use auto exposure too.
Look at my photo website and see what quality is possible.

Agree with all of your thoughts on his photo Meta4. But I'm kind of surprised with 40 years of Photo experience that your shooting in Auto and shooting j-pegs with these small sensors on these Phantoms? I would say shoot j-peg for a while but I would def suggest to learn how to tweak these small sensor files in Camera Raw. You can really make a huge diff in Adobe Raw! But if he is not gonna ever learn how to convert one in Raw or even get into a serious imaging software then J-pegs will do just fine.It's overkill if all your doing is posting this stuff to the internet though. LOL.

 

[pilot ss]

Thanks for all the responses.
Yes the photo is hazy and the day was overcast, however, I seem to be having this problem even on beautiful sunny days, and yes the photo was of objects far away in the distance.
I have always shot RAW stills on my P3, and P4, and never had a problem playing around with them in post. I guess this is the most frustrating part for me at the moment, that I was seeing better results using my P3 and P4. I am sure once I have the settings worked out the P4P will be much superior.
I understand that there is a lot of differences and ability to play around with this camera, and that is why I have been spending endless hours researching what different settings do, and how to properly understand ISO, aperture and shutter speeds, and then putting this into play through trial and error up in the sky.
Maybe I am trying too hard to get the best result with the P4P, but that is why I forked out the extra $ for this model.
I will have a play with auto settings and jpegs, however that is not what I want to be doing with this bird in the long term.
I have had Auto focus assistant on since i started using the P4P, but this morning I turned it off for this shoot, to see how it would go without it.
I have also (since this photo) used manual focus, and I don't believe that the images were any superior to AF.

 

[KevMo Photog]

Thanks for all the responses.
Yes the photo is hazy and the day was overcast, however, I seem to be having this problem even on beautiful sunny days, and yes the photo was of objects far away in the distance.
I have always shot RAW stills on my P3, and P4, and never had a problem playing around with them in post. I guess this is the most frustrating part for me at the moment, that I was seeing better results using my P3 and P4. I am sure once I have the settings worked out the P4P will be much superior.
I understand that there is a lot of differences and ability to play around with this camera, and that is why I have been spending endless hours researching what different settings do, and how to properly understand ISO, aperture and shutter speeds, and then putting this into play through trial and error up in the sky.
Maybe I am trying too hard to get the best result with the P4P, but that is why I forked out the extra $ for this model.
I will have a play with auto settings and jpegs, however that is not what I want to be doing with this bird in the long term.
I have had Auto focus assistant on since i started using the P4P, but this morning I turned it off for this shoot, to see how it would go without it.
I have also (since this photo) used manual focus, and I don't believe that the images were any superior to AF.

Something is def not getting focused right or you have a problem with your sensor possibly. So you were just hovering right there and then tapped the screen to focus?

 

[Meta4]

I will have a play with auto settings and jpegs, however that is not what I want to be doing with this bird in the long term.

You don't have to stay in auto but if you want to know whether there is a problem with the camera or what you are doing, it's a good starting place to work from.

I have had Auto focus assistant on since i started using the P4P, but this morning I turned it off for this shoot, to see how it would go without it.
I have also (since this photo) used manual focus, and I don't believe that the images were any superior to AF.

Focus is not a big deal with the P4 pro.
The lens has a truckload of depth of field anyway.
Here's something I wrote earlier on what the DoF is for this camera.

DoF is a huge concern with longer lenses but not so much with very wideangle lenses which already have a lot of depth of field.
Adjusting the aperture on the Phantom will change the DoF, but not as much as you might imagine.
Here are some numbers to show what the actual effect is:
At f2.8 and focused at 50 feet - everything from 12ft - infinity is in focus
At f5.6 and focused at 50 feet - everything from 6ft - infinity is in focus
At f11 and focused at 50 feet - everything from 3ft - infinity is in focus
With the Phantom, Depth of Field is only a real concern if you are focusing on a very close subject.
For general aerial photography where everything in the picture is distant, it doesn't make much difference.

 

[Meta4]

I'm kind of surprised with 40 years of Photo experience that your shooting in Auto and shooting j-pegs with these small sensors on these Phantoms?

Saying I just shoot auto is a bit of a simplification.
I over-ride the exposure when necessary and often bracket to have a few variations to choose from and I know how to get good results in Photoshop.
But I've done raw in the past and really can't see any advantage for me in the work I do now, whether with my big Nikon or the P4pro, the jpg output is very good.
It's a lot better than most people assume.

 

[ppdrone]

Pilot SS I am getting out of focus results when shooting with autofocus .... but when shoot with manual focus set to infinity I get good results...

 

[pilot ss]

Something is def not getting focused right or you have a problem with your sensor possibly. So you were just hovering right there and then tapped the screen to focus?

This is the exact reason I thought that I would ask on this forum, it is a possibility that there is a problem with the sensor, however I am hoping this is not the case..

You don't have to stay in auto but if you want to know whether there is a problem with the camera or what you are doing, it's a good starting place to work from.

Focus is not a big deal with the P4 pro.
The lens has a truckload of depth of field anyway.
Here's something I wrote earlier on what the DoF is for this camera.

DoF is a huge concern with longer lenses but not so much with very wideangle lenses which already have a lot of depth of field.
Adjusting the aperture on the Phantom will change the DoF, but not as much as you might imagine.
Here are some numbers to show what the actual effect is:
At f2.8 and focused at 50 feet - everything from 12ft - infinity is in focus
At f5.6 and focused at 50 feet - everything from 6ft - infinity is in focus
At f11 and focused at 50 feet - everything from 3ft - infinity is in focus
With the Phantom, Depth of Field is only a real concern if you are focusing on a very close subject.
For general aerial photography where everything in the picture is distant, it doesn't make much difference.

Ok, I am having dramas with the sides of photos where it seems that the centre may be in focus, yet the left and right sides look as though they are not nearly as focused as the centre of the photo (particularly noticeable in trees where wind is not a factor) something I never noticed with my P4, and with your aperture explanation, I am assuming that everything from 12ft - infinity should be in focus (with f2.8)

 

[pilot ss]

Pilot SS I am getting out of focus results when shooting with autofocus .... but when shoot with manual focus set to infinity I get good results...

I did try setting to infinity this afternoon, and it was even worse then the RAW photo i posted..It was pretty much full blur.

 

[Meta4]

I did try setting to infinity this afternoon, and it was even worse then the RAW photo i posted..It was pretty much full blur.

Shoot something like a well lit brick wall or the side of a house 40 or 50 feet away and see what kind of results you get.

 

[KevMo Photog]

This is the exact reason I thought that I would ask on this forum, it is a possibility that there is a problem with the sensor, however I am hoping this is not the case..



Ok, I am having dramas with the sides of photos where it seems that the centre may be in focus, yet the left and right sides look as though they are not nearly as focused as the centre of the photo (particularly noticeable in trees where wind is not a factor) something I never noticed with my P4, and with your aperture explanation, I am assuming that everything from 12ft - infinity should be in focus (with f2.8)

Prob not 12ft a F2.8. 2.8 will give your shortest depth of field and be the softest aperture on that lens pilot ss. By shortest depth of field I mean the shortest are throughout the photograph that is in focus. As you stop down to smaller apertures your depth of field increases. More area in focus throughout the image. But still at F2.8 whatever your focusing on should be tack sharp. It really sounds like you have a sensor problem maybe! Especially since you are getting some sharp in the center but blurry on the sides. Try what Meta4 said and shoot something that you can really tell on the focus from edge to edge.

 

[Doctorcobani]

Shoot something like a well lit brick wall or the side of a house 40 or 50 feet away and see what kind of results you get.

Agree

Make the test in a controlled environment. Drone in ground, well-lit target and close enough (1.5 meters), put manual focus and go up and down with the dial, and see where the camera focuses. Use f2.8 and a distant background to see where is the focus.

Enviado desde mi Nexus 6P mediante Tapatalk

 

[iker]

Pilot SS, may be you are not doing something wrong.

i have a problem of focus and blur on all video and images, on my new phantom 4 pro, received 15 days ago.

At the beginning, i was believing it was a question of settings…

On the Phantom 4 and the Inspire 1 i have used before, there were no settings of sharpness, and when it was not sharp, it was in great part a question of resolution of the sensor.

With a sensor 4 times larger, with a resolution near twice of the P4, i was hoping images very clear and sharp.

And from my first fly, two weeks ago, up to yesterday, i've to admit that none of my images are sharp, where i told to DJI GO 4 to make the focus.

None.

Here is an image taken, in the french part of the bask coast, last week 150 m away from the next one, with the phantom 4 PRO

and the other image taken this summer in september… with the phantom 4 (in a serial of images for a panosphere)

not the same height, but quite the same place…

i've chosen the P4P for the quality of the sensor, and the sharpness of images i could wait for, but all the videos and all the pictures are blurred.

From near, from far… from near and far…

 

[KevMo Photog]

Not sure what you have done in editing on these two imgages. But they look way oversharpened in Photoshop to me. Did you stitch several photos together to come up with this? Both these images look terrible from an editing standpoint to be honest. Need to see your Raw file from these? These images are not blurry. They look in focus but looks like you sharpened them so much it's all just a garbled up photo now.

 

[iker]

KevMo

the first one is issue of a movie in 4K, and not edited. Just a screen copy. Normally i have crisp images from my Inspire, or Phantom 4.

The second is unedited too, taken in AEB, only in JPEG, because at this moment, when i used with autopilot, 26 images for a panosphere, in aeb with 3 or 5 exposures, both in JPEG and Raw, there was at least 234 images, and up to 390 images taken in 5 minutes. And the micro-sd was not able to accept such a rate of shooting.

So, i was testing that day if the P4 was able to take 3 aeb in just JPEG format, whithout the shortest pause of 2 seconds between changing of orientation.

By the way, the lexar micro-sd card x 1 800, i use for now on the P4 is not accepted on the P4P, a second reason of disappointment.

 

[iker]

Here is two screen shots, unedited from a 4K movie,
•one of the September 5th, with a phantom 4 (145 m height, i presume),
•and the other one, of december 24th (250 m may be) taken with phantom 4 pro

 

[KevMo Photog]

When you say screen shots, you mean captured on your computer by hitting screen shot? Also, you are not gonna get the full resolution from a one frame capture in video mode. Plus you will have some rolling shutter issue by doing that too. Your only getting maybe 10-11 megapixel capture from a photo captured from a video clip! Is that what you are doing? Because that's what these look like to me. They look overly sharpened and not enough resolution to me. And, then you are stitching together several of these it's only gonna get worse from there if you are starting with a bad image to start with. None of the pics you have posted here look like they are from an original Raw or Original J-peg in my opinion. One or two look like they are in focus but look way over rezzed or garbly and oversharpened.