P3A grainy video in morning, evening light.

SolidP · Jan 10, 2016

Hi all.

I have posted about pixelated videos in "tricky" light conditions before, but I've been flying a lot more since and realizing it's not pixels, just REALLY grainy results.

Why I'm posting again is because i can't believe I'm supposed to be happy with the video results I'm getting. The conditions isn't really that tricky (hence the "" before). I mean, my two year old phone shoots better photos/videos with a scratched up lens and far less impressive specifications then the P3A camera. It seems it struggle the most when there is something green in the picture, bushes or trees.

What i would like from you guys is to have a look at a quick sample video and have your saying. Any advice for settings would be welcome. Preferably from someone that have experienced the same thing and managed to sort it out. All clips in the sample is shot in 1080/60 and AUTO-mode. I have tried changing the settings in MANUAL-mode to what I'm using for my SLR shooting stills but i end upp with the same graininess anyway... And as i mentioned, all my other cameras (phone, SLR, compact and GoPro) takes photos that doesn't come out grainy in the same light. Tried filming and taking photos of sort of the same things in same light conditions. Saying sort of because they were not aerials..

Im using a SanDisk Extreme Pro that write in speeds up to 90MB/S so it should be up for it.

So. Have a look at it and let me know what you think!

Note. I haven't put ANY energy in to the process of putting the video together. Just choosed parts that shows the result. I'm not looking for comments about how it was put together.

Note 2. I had a REALLY bad upload speed when putting the video on youtube. Had to wait FOREVER to take a minute to look at it and reply. Or the waiting was for nothing

ferratus · Jan 10, 2016

I noticed a LOT of noise on my videos as well. Seems the only way to get away from it is to lower your iso settings and shutter speed combo. At least that's what I did.

Mike Brown · Jan 10, 2016

SolidP said:
Hi all.

I have posted about pixelated videos in "tricky" light conditions before, but I've been flying a lot more since and realizing it's not pixels, just REALLY grainy results.

Why I'm posting again is because i can't believe I'm supposed to be happy with the video results I'm getting. The conditions isn't really that tricky (hence the "" before). I mean, my two year old phone shoots better photos/videos with a scratched up lens and far less impressive specifications then the P3A camera. It seems it struggle the most when there is something green in the picture, bushes or trees.

What i would like from you guys is to have a look at a quick sample video and have your saying. Any advice for settings would be welcome. Preferably from someone that have experienced the same thing and managed to sort it out. All clips in the sample is shot in 1080/60 and AUTO-mode. I have tried changing the settings in MANUAL-mode to what I'm using for my SLR shooting stills but i end upp with the same graininess anyway... And as i mentioned, all my other cameras (phone, SLR, compact and GoPro) takes photos that doesn't come out grainy in the same light. Tried filming and taking photos of sort of the same things in same light conditions. Saying sort of because they were not aerials..

Im using a SanDisk Extreme Pro that write in speeds up to 90MB/S so it should be up for it.

So. Have a look at it and let me know what you think!

Note. I haven't put ANY energy in to the process of putting the video together. Just choosed parts that shows the result. I'm not looking for comments about how it was put together.

Note 2. I had a REALLY bad upload speed when putting the video on youtube. Had to wait FOREVER to take a minute to look at it and reply. Or the waiting was for nothing

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Hi SolidP,
I've looked at your video which you say is very grainy and firstly must say that the correct term is noise not grain although that is the accepted digital equivalent of high speed film stock. When the image signal from the sensor is amplified to increase its sensitivity to light noise is introduced into the image. However in my experience as a professional advertising photographer of over 40 years experience it is most unusual for grain/noise to show up on video even at high iso/gain levels. The reason for this is that the noise is at a different position in each frame and not fixed at one point in every frame, thus it becomes indistinguishable. Your images do however seem very soft or blurred in the example and I question lens performance of the camera, assuming that the lens/filter is clean. Are you getting the same results in ordinary daylight, no sun, what iso is the camera recording at and what shutter speed is indicated. Do you get such soft results from still images, grain/noise will be much more evident in stills if that is the cause. Do some tests, post them and I will happy to help if I can, good luck.

SolidP · Jan 10, 2016

Mike Brown said:
Hi SolidP,
I've looked at your video which you say is very grainy and firstly must say that the correct term is noise not grain although that is the accepted digital equivalent of high speed film stock. When the image signal from the sensor is amplified to increase its sensitivity to light noise is introduced into the image. However in my experience as a professional advertising photographer of over 40 years experience it is most unusual for grain/noise to show up on video even at high iso/gain levels. The reason for this is that the noise is at a different position in each frame and not fixed at one point in every frame, thus it becomes indistinguishable. Your images do however seem very soft or blurred in the example and I question lens performance of the camera, assuming that the lens/filter is clean. Are you getting the same results in ordinary daylight, no sun, what iso is the camera recording at and what shutter speed is indicated. Do you get such soft results from still images, grain/noise will be much more evident in stills if that is the cause. Do some tests, post them and I will happy to help if I can, good luck.

Hi.

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts!

The quality gets better later in the day. Both with and without clouds. This is visible in the last segment of the video even though noise is still present in green areas even then. The photos comes out the same when the video does.

Do you know if there is a way of reading what iso and shutter was set from the video?

Another question from a novis. How would a lower shutter speed sort nois? Thought higher speed was better for light condition. Lower speed would just make the pictures/videos lighter (over exposed) right?!

Another problem is that the quality from the video link isn't exactly HD as DJI claims. So it's impossible to say what the end result will look like from watching the feed. It's always a nasty surprise when inserting the SD to my computer. Been trying different cords, airplane mode on/off and tried different equipment (phone and tablet) but the feed is both noisy, pixelated and skippy. This is not transfered to the end result so it's definitely just a reception issue. But in line with getting disconnected sporadically and with the noise in "low light" I'm slowly loosing fate. Stopped researching the issue and just assumed that this is the quality I can expect from this product...

If anyone sits on the solution for the latter you're welcome to provide your thoughts to!!!

SolidP · Jan 11, 2016

No thoughts....?

ferratus · Jan 11, 2016

I misspoke about bringing " down " yes slowing your shutter speed will allow more light into your device. However that is offset by lowering your iso. Keep it away from the 800 mark as that is where the noise seems to come in.

Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app

WetDog · Jan 11, 2016

Mike Brown said:
Hi SolidP,
I've looked at your video which you say is very grainy and firstly must say that the correct term is noise not grain although that is the accepted digital equivalent of high speed film stock. When the image signal from the sensor is amplified to increase its sensitivity to light noise is introduced into the image. However in my experience as a professional advertising photographer of over 40 years experience it is most unusual for grain/noise to show up on video even at high iso/gain levels. The reason for this is that the noise is at a different position in each frame and not fixed at one point in every frame, thus it becomes indistinguishable. Your images do however seem very soft or blurred in the example and I question lens performance of the camera, assuming that the lens/filter is clean. Are you getting the same results in ordinary daylight, no sun, what iso is the camera recording at and what shutter speed is indicated. Do you get such soft results from still images, grain/noise will be much more evident in stills if that is the cause. Do some tests, post them and I will happy to help if I can, good luck.

I would agree that the problem with the video is that it is blurred / soft. I can see the noise in the darker areas, but it's just bad video quality for some reason. The Phantom is capable of better than that.

But... the Phantom camera is not a very good low light sensor. This is especially true on stills. My iPhone 6 beats it and there is no comparison to modern DLSR performance.

I'd go back and review your settings - something is wrong but it could be just the encoding to YouTube. You are taking the video off the SD card, not the tablet, correct?

ryantrax · Jan 11, 2016

The higher your ISO the more film grain you will have. Obviously don't shoot with ND filters on in low light conditions as this will make the effect worse. I'm guessing your ISO was just set too high. I usually shoot video in the AUTOISO setting and change it only on photos when I'm perfectly still shooting in lower light to a lower number. Here is a good video that explains ISO / F-STOP / Shutter Speed.

m0j0 · Jan 12, 2016

A few things. I don't shoot auto anything because I want to be able to control the light coming into the lens and shutter speed. So in this instance you are shooting 60 fps. The rule of thumb for video is that shutter speed should be double the frame rate. So for you circumstance you should have set the shutter to 100. I think that's the closet to 120 you can get. After that you set the ISO to a setting where the ev is closet to zero. That is a simple explanation. So in low light using a slower frame rate will allow you the best chance to get properly exposed video with the lowest ISO setting.

So I would try.. Taking the camera off auto. Using a frame rate that is slower. Set the shutter speed at a number that is closest to double the frame rate. Adjust the ISO to a number that gets the ev closest to 0. Post your results.

Oh and of course if you were using any ND filters take them off in low light.

Helijoc · Jan 12, 2016

Not to insult you. Don't know how long you have had your P3. You took the protective film off the camera lens right? I had missed that the first couple flights I did.

SolidP · Jan 12, 2016

WetDog said:
I would agree that the problem with the video is that it is blurred / soft. I can see the noise in the darker areas, but it's just bad video quality for some reason. The Phantom is capable of better than that.

But... the Phantom camera is not a very good low light sensor. This is especially true on stills. My iPhone 6 beats it and there is no comparison to modern DLSR performance.

I'd go back and review your settings - something is wrong but it could be just the encoding to YouTube. You are taking the video off the SD card, not the tablet, correct?

Hi.

The video quality is this bad. Look at it in HD 1080 and that is just as bad as it is.

SolidP · Jan 12, 2016

Helijoc said:
Not to insult you. Don't know how long you have had your P3. You took the protective film off the camera lens right? I had missed that the first couple flights I did.

Haha. Love this post! Cover is off but that would have been embarrassing

SolidP · Jan 12, 2016

m0j0 said:
A few things. I don't shoot auto anything because I want to be able to control the light coming into the lens and shutter speed. So in this instance you are shooting 60 fps. The rule of thumb for video is that shutter speed should be double the frame rate. So for you circumstance you should have set the shutter to 100. I think that's the closet to 120 you can get. After that you set the ISO to a setting where the ev is closet to zero. That is a simple explanation. So in low light using a slower frame rate will allow you the best chance to get properly exposed video with the lowest ISO setting.

So I would try.. Taking the camera off auto. Using a frame rate that is slower. Set the shutter speed at a number that is closest to double the frame rate. Adjust the ISO to a number that gets the ev closest to 0. Post your results.

Oh and of course if you were using any ND filters take them off in low light.

Will try this next time!

Thank you for explaining in a easy to understand way..

Just a question. Would you think of the light in the video to be "tricky" or "difficult"? I mean my phone shoot a wonderfull crisp photo on that exact day and as I said before, the phone is pretty banged up...

Muva Bee · Jan 12, 2016

Hi. I have same concerns here too. P3A. Here is what i was able to get. Vid & picture. I would like to know if my camera defected or out of focus in any way or this is normal.
Photo: just this morning. all auto, just to test sharpness/focus. Red a lot about that yesterday.
Video: log, -2,-3,-2, graded in Resolve (bit lame but.. haha), touch of sharpness on whole thing.

richardhurst · Jan 12, 2016

You have to realise that the sensor on the P3 is small and as such in low light conditions you will always have some noise, it's just a fact of life. As the day gets brighter the more light hits the sensor and so improves the picture quality. You can do things like keep ISO down to low as possible, ideally 100 but you will never improve it that much. They aren't every going to produce the sort of quality a micro 4/3's or a full frame sensor would be capable of. shoot in manual though otherwise if you shoot in auto it will be pushing your ISO way to high and thats why you are all getting noisey footage

Muva Bee · Jan 12, 2016

richardhurst said:
You have to realise that the sensor on the P3 is small and as such in low light conditions you will always have some noise, it's just a fact of life. As the day gets brighter the more light hits the sensor and so improves the picture quality. You can do things like keep ISO down to low as possible, ideally 100 but you will never improve it that much. They aren't every going to produce the sort of quality a micro 4/3's or a full frame sensor would be capable of.

I realise that, this is not DSLR. But i was trying to check does this are looking normal in this "not perfect" light conditions. I'm bit scared that my phantom is slightly defected in terms of image/video focus as there is a lot of threads about some units not having same photo/video performance as others.

richardhurst · Jan 12, 2016

Muva Bee said:
I realise that, this is not DSLR. But i was trying to check does this are looking normal in this "not perfect" light conditions. I'm bit scared that my phantom is slightly defected in terms of image/video focus as there is a lot of threads about some units not having same photo/video performance as others.

No it looked fine.

richardhurst · Jan 12, 2016

SolidP said:
Hi all.

I have posted about pixelated videos in "tricky" light conditions before, but I've been flying a lot more since and realizing it's not pixels, just REALLY grainy results.

Why I'm posting again is because i can't believe I'm supposed to be happy with the video results I'm getting. The conditions isn't really that tricky (hence the "" before). I mean, my two year old phone shoots better photos/videos with a scratched up lens and far less impressive specifications then the P3A camera. It seems it struggle the most when there is something green in the picture, bushes or trees.

What i would like from you guys is to have a look at a quick sample video and have your saying. Any advice for settings would be welcome. Preferably from someone that have experienced the same thing and managed to sort it out. All clips in the sample is shot in 1080/60 and AUTO-mode. I have tried changing the settings in MANUAL-mode to what I'm using for my SLR shooting stills but i end upp with the same graininess anyway... And as i mentioned, all my other cameras (phone, SLR, compact and GoPro) takes photos that doesn't come out grainy in the same light. Tried filming and taking photos of sort of the same things in same light conditions. Saying sort of because they were not aerials..

Im using a SanDisk Extreme Pro that write in speeds up to 90MB/S so it should be up for it.

So. Have a look at it and let me know what you think!

Note. I haven't put ANY energy in to the process of putting the video together. Just choosed parts that shows the result. I'm not looking for comments about how it was put together.

Note 2. I had a REALLY bad upload speed when putting the video on youtube. Had to wait FOREVER to take a minute to look at it and reply. Or the waiting was for nothing

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Are you shooting in D-Log, None or other colour profile setting? What was your Style settings? these will also play a big part in the quality of footage, especially if you are not sharpening in post production

Muva Bee · Jan 12, 2016

richardhurst said:
No it looked fine.

Thanks for comment. Always looking how to produce better results get me to thinking that my phantom unit is not one of bests in it's class.

Bought P3 because of this vid. But still far far away from any results close to this. Not in terms of landscape, just video technicalities. (dynamic range, colours, etc)

Muva Bee · Jan 12, 2016

richardhurst said:
Are you shooting in D-Log, None or other colour profile setting? What was your Style settings? these will also play a big part in the quality of footage, especially if you are not sharpening in post production

This was my settings for this vid. Video: LOG, -2,-3,-2. +0.3 over overexposed in general to better preserve mids.
Graded just basics, no luts, no any fancy technique